ai-podcast/website/transcripts/episode-21-carts-confetti-and-canine-collateral.txt

LUKE: All right. Hello everybody. Welcome back to Luke at the Roost. I am your host, Luke, and today is Tuesday, February 24th. This is the call-in radio show where you can call in and ask me anything about what's on your mind. I'll give you the best advice I can, though I am not a lawyer, I am not an accountant, and I give terrible advice. So with that being said, if you'd like to call in, the number's 208, 4th, 3,000, 3rd, 39-5853. That's 208-439. Luke. First up on the phones here, we've got Greg. Greg, welcome to the show. How can we help you today?

GREG: Luke, hey, yeah. So our smart speaker tried to wake up the entire neighborhood at four in the morning, blasting mariachi music. And I'm pretty sure my wife's never going to let me hear the end of it. The thing is I never even wanted the damn thing. My daughter set it up last Christmas, said it'd make our lives easier, and I've been side-eyeing it ever since. Just sitting there on the kitchen counter like some kind of little robot spy. And this morning it just decides, 4 a.m. Time for a fiesta, apparently.

LUKE: Well, what else do you use it for? There's some pretty good uses for it. It is a little robot spy sitting there listening to everything you say, but it can be fun too and useful.

GREG: Honestly, Linda uses it for timers when she's cooking. asks it about the weather sometimes. I mostly just walk past it. She'll say, play some Fleetwood Mac, and it does, and I guess that's nice enough. But I work nights, Luke, so when I'm home during the day, I'm trying to sleep. And more than once, that thing has started talking out of nowhere because it thought it heard something.

LUKE: Well, you know, you can turn the microphone off, so it doesn't operate that way?

GREG: Yeah. My daughter told me that too. But then Linda says, well, what's the point of having it if we turn it off? And she's got a point, I guess. makes me uneasy. I grew up with a rotary phone on the kitchen wall, you know. You wanted music you put on a record.

LUKE: Yeah, well, now it's 2026 and that's not how it's done anymore. And there are some ways that you can manage that device without having the speaker on. I mean, you have to have the speaker on something, like a smart watch or something. But you can set up a shortcut, so if you talk to your watch, it'll play Fleetwood Mac on the smart speaker.

GREG: I don't have a smart watch, Luke. I've got a where I work about eight years ago, still keeps perfect time. But look, the real kicker this morning was I had to climb up into the attic in my boxes to pull the plug because the thing wouldn't respond to anything we said.

LUKE: Okay, well here's my advice for you. This is what I would do. I would set up a shortcut. You might not have a smart watch, but you do have a smartphone, so you can open up the Google Home or Apple HomeKit or whatever it is app for your smart speaker and set a schedule so that at 10 p.m. it, uh, you can open up the uh, mutes the volume until 8 a.m. And then you don't have to worry about waking up the neighbors at 4 a.m.

GREG: Huh. That's actually not a bad idea. I didn't even know you could do that. See, this is the problem. My daughter sets this stuff up and then moves back to Phoenix, and I'm just supposed to figure it out. Linda standing there in her robe this morning with a flashlight, laughing so hard she's crying while I'm freezing my ass off in the attic. And I'm thinking there's got to be a better way to handle this.

LUKE: Yeah, you're supposed to figure it out. You know how you figure it out? You fucking try. It's really not that hard. It's not rocket science. You actually are like, hey, how could I solve this problem? And you don't even have to know the answer. You just go to your search engine of choice. Google is one good one, and you can say, how can I stop this smart speaker from going off in the middle of the... Just fucking try. That's all you have to do.

GREG: All right, all right. I hear you. You're not wrong. I guess I've been treating it like it's some kind of alien technology, when really I just need to spend 10 minutes poking around in the app. It's just, I don't know, Luke. When you've been doing the same job for 12 years, stocking the same shelves every night, there's a part of you that stops trying to learn new things. You get in a groove and you stay there.

LUKE: Well, if you want to stay there, then you can look like an idiot every time you start playing fiesta music at 4 a.m. But I would recommend that you don't look like an idiot and you actually put in some level of effort, because these are designed so that a 12-year-old can use them. So if a 12-year-old can use it, and you're a full-grown adult, I'm pretty sure you can figure it out.

GREG: You know what? You're right. I'm sitting here complaining about a problem that probably takes less time to fix than it took me to climb into that attic this morning. I'll pull up the app on my break. Figure out the schedule thing you mentioned. Can't be harder than learning the new inventory system they made a switch to last year. And I managed that eventually.

LUKE: I have full faith in your ability to figure out your smart speaker, sir. I wish you the best of luck, but also stop being a lazy bastard. Estelle, thanks for calling in. What's going on today?

ESTELLE: Hey, Luke. Thanks for taking my call. So I work at a laundromat, and I've been tracking who returns their shopping carts in the parking lot, versus who just leaves them wherever. The numbers are driving me crazy, because I think it actually tells you everything you need to know about a person.

LUKE: Well, I don't know about that, but I'm curious about your inventory tracking system. and their laundry. So you can see that the people that do two blankets a week, they're the ones more likely to return their shopping carts. What's your system look like? How detailed is it?

ESTELLE: No, no, it's not that detailed. I've got the security monitor at my desk in the back office, and I can see the Albertsons across the street. People walk over there, do their shopping, and then I watch what they do with the cart when they get back to their car. I started keeping a tally sheet two weeks ago just marks on paper. One column for people who return it. One column for people who don't.

LUKE: Which column do you yourself belong in?

ESTELLE: I return mine every time. Even if I'm parked right next to the store, and the cart return is on the other side of the lot. My husband thinks I'm being ridiculous about this whole thing, but I can't help it.

LUKE: Now doesn't the store hire? a guy or lady to go collect those carts and move them out of the parking lot?

ESTELLE: Yeah, they do. But that's not the point. The point is, there's no punishment for leaving your cart in the fire lane or blocking a handicapped spot. Nobody's watching. Nobody's making you do the right thing. So when someone walks that cart all the way back to the corral when they could just leave it, that tells me something. That tells me they probably stop if they saw you broken down down on the side of the road. The people who leave it three feet from their car.

LUKE: Well, I think that's making quite a few assumptions about the values of people at large.

ESTELLE: Is it, though? Because I watched someone last week, leave their cart, right in the middle of an empty parking space. And then two hours later, that same person came back in. Because the dryers ate their quarters.

LUKE: And you know what?

ESTELLE: Do you think the dryers ate their quarters because of a karmic retribution? No, but they stood there at my counter, demanding I give them their money back, saying it wasn't their fault, saying I should have signs posted, even though there are signs posted. They wanted me to fix their problem immediately, but they couldn't be bothered to walk 15 feet to put a cart away. I'm just saying there's a pattern. Tonight, I counted 47 people who returned their carts versus 63 who didn't. And yeah, maybe I'm reading too much into it.

LUKE: But when you sit here night after night, watching people make that choice, when nobody's looking, it starts to feel like it means something. Well, there's a difference here. You see, the difference is that person was not an employee of Albertsons, and it's not their job to return the cart to the designated cart return space. Whereas in the laundromat, it is your job to fix the problem. And if that person lost their quarters in the machine, then yes, they should expect that you're going to fix their problem. That's your entire job.

ESTELLE: Okay, but the dryer didn't eat their quarters. They put in six quarters for a 40 minute cycle and pulled their clothes out after 20 minutes because they were in a hurry. Then they came back two hours later saying the machine stole from them. I showed them on the timer that they stopped it themselves.

LUKE: Okay. Well, that's different. That is douchebaggery, and I can agree with you on that. And it's a good thing that you had that, uh, that tape ready to show them that, hey, this machine did not eat your quarter, sir. And by the way, you left your shopping cart in the middle of the shopping space and it made me very upset.

ESTELLE: I didn't say that last part to them. I'm not confronting customers about shopping carts at Albertsons, but I'm watching it happen on my security monitor. Because those carts end up blocking my dumpster, and last month, one of them rolled into a customer's Subaru. And I'm sitting here thinking about how it's the same kind of thing. When there's no consequence, when nobody's watching, what do people do?

LUKE: Well, I can't talk about people at large, but I can tell you what I do. When I have a shopping card and I bring it to my car, I unload my goods, my merchandise into the car. And then if there is a spot where I can deposit, that cart within a reasonable distance, I will deposit it. Otherwise, I'll move it somewhere out of the way because usually a parking lot is completely empty and there's plenty of space to drive around a cart, and I'll allow the person whose job it is to put that away to come put it away.

ESTELLE: See, that's what I'm talking about. You just said out of the way and plenty of space to drive around it. But who decides what's out of the way? Because I've got full footage of people leaving carts in handicapped spots, thinking they're out of the way. And, yeah, the parking lot looks empty at 10 o'clock at night. But then someone pulls in at 6 in the morning when it's still dark and there's a cart sitting there. It takes 30 seconds to walk it back. 30 seconds.

LUKE: Well, maybe in that Albertson, but not in every parking lot. There are some that are split in the middle with a sidewalk type thing where you got to lift up the cart and carry it over and then push it back to the front of the store. No, I'm not doing that. But if it's reasonable and there's a little place to put the carts, I would say about 80% of the time I return the carts. And 20% of the time, no. You return the cart. If it bothers you, get out of your car and move it.

ESTELLE: So you're part of the 63. And that's fine. You can be part of the 63. But don't act surprised when nobody stops to help you change a tire, because I'm telling you, there's a connection. The people who can't be bothered to take 30 seconds when nobody's watching. Those are the same people who stand at my counter demanding I fix a problem they created. And my husband thinks I'm obsessing over this, but I started keeping the tally sheet two weeks ago just to see if I was crazy. And the numbers don't lie.

LUKE: You're right, they don't lie. You are crazy. Because sitting at your job, watching across the street and counting the number of times that people return their shopping cards is bat shit crazy.

ESTELLE: You know what? Fair. Maybe it is. But I'm sitting here anyway waiting for the last dryers to finish staring at this monitor. Because someone has to watch for people dumping trash in my dumpster or trying to break into the change machine. And the Albertson's parking lot is right there in frame. So yeah, I started counting.

LUKE: Well, good for you. How is it improving your life in any way? Instead of, you know, taking your personal pet peeve and associating a moral gauge of people's goodliness based on it.

ESTELLE: Because it's not just a pet peeve. That cart that rolled into the Subaru, I had to deal with that.

LUKE: Yeah, what did you have to do to deal with that?

ESTELLE: The woman came into my laundromat screaming because she saw it happen on my camera and wanted the footage. And I gave it to her. And you know what it showed? Some guy leaving his cart right where I've got the no parking dumpster access sign and then it just rolled rolled right across the lot into her car.

LUKE: Well, that is a goddamn travesty. You know what I suggest? Here's my recommendation for you. Right where it says that no parking dumpster access sign, you should also put another sign that says don't leave your cart here. Uh, because placing a car is not the same as parking a car. Thing is, they move easily, whereas a car you kind of have to turn it out of the way. There's a big difference. So, yeah, I don't think this is a thing.

ESTELLE: Oh, so now I need signs telling people not to leave carts in a fire lane, not to block handicapped spots. How many signs do I need before people just do the basic thing? That's my whole point. It's not about the carts.

LUKE: Okay, well, you're the one that's tracking the carts on a graph there sitting at your desk. So what is it about if it's not about the carts?

ESTELLE: It's about the moral responsibility of society at large. It's about whether someone does the right thing when nobody's making them. That's it. The cart return is right there. You can see it from anywhere in that lot. Takes 30 seconds. But 63 people today couldn't be bothered because there's no consequence.

LUKE: Yeah, there's no consequence because it's not a law. There's no rule or regulation or law that says you have to return your cart to the place. And that's why there's no consequence. If you want consequence, I suggest that you, I don't know, join your local board of selectmen and issue a state or county wide, townwide, whatever. Issue a town bylaw that all carts will be returned to the cart space. But you see, the thing is, this is this is America. And people want people to come to their stores and they don't want to be hassled with the carts. So that's why they hire somebody to go clean up the carts. Now, if the carts aren't being cleaned up at the end of the night when the store is closed and everybody's going home, whose fault is that? Is it the fault of every individual shopper that was trying to get, you know, their kid to stop crying and get home to make dinner for the family? Or is it the kid that, uh, that had that job and didn't do it before he went home?

ESTELLE: The Albertson's kid isn't out there at 11.30 at night when I'm closing up. And there's three carts blocking my dumpster access. And yeah, maybe that mom had a screaming kid. I get it. But what about the guy I watched tonight in a suit? No kids. Just walked his cart 10 feet past the return to leave it in a handicap spot. What's his excuse?

LUKE: He had a bunion.

ESTELLE: Oh, come on. You don't. Look, I watched him. He was fine.

LUKE: Oh, so you can tell? You can tell if he was sick to his stomach and about to puke, tell if his big toe was cut off by a meat cleaver accident this morning? You can't look at somebody and tell how they feel or what's going on in their body or in their mind. I'm sorry, lady. You're out of your mind.

ESTELLE: Okay, fine. Maybe that one guy had a bunion. What about the other 62 people? They all have bunions?

LUKE: I'm going to guess that some percentage of them are general assholes, but the vast majority just had other stuff going on. And this is not their primary, you know, priority today.

ESTELLE: But that's exactly what I'm saying. When it's inconvenient, when they've got other stuff going on, they don't do it. That's the test. Anyone can do the right thing when it's easy.

LUKE: I'm talking about the 30 seconds when you're tired or distracted or your toe hurts. Do you still put the cart back?

ESTELLE: I put the cart back when it makes sense to put the cart back. And when it doesn't, I don't put the car back. And I'm an adult with agency and the ability to tell when it's okay to leave a cart somewhere and when you're blocking something important. And I think most adult people that are able to drive can make that distinction. And it's really not up to you. It's not your job. And it's not your responsibility to decide when that's okay or where it's okay.

LUKE: But you just said you can tell when you're blocking something important. The guy tonight left his cart in a handicapped spot. That's blocking something important.

ESTELLE: Sure, and I told you that there was going to be some percentage of assholes. But that doesn't mean that guy didn't stop on his way home and help an old man fix his tire. It doesn't mean he wouldn't go out of his way to support a food kitchen on Christmas because you don't like the way he handled his cart. Come on.

LUKE: So what? One good deed cancels out being inconsiderate. I'm supposed to assume the guy blocking the handicapped spot is secretly Mother Teresa, because maybe he volunteers sometimes.

ESTELLE: Look, I'm not saying these people are evil.

LUKE: You are. That's exactly what you're saying. You're saying you can tell from whether or not people return their carts how they are in general towards society. You're saying the people that don't return their carts aren't helpful and they're not going to stop on the side of the road and you're making a ton of assumptions here and you're not in a position to do that lady.

ESTELLE: I didn't say they're evil. I said you can tell who would help you change attire. And yeah, I stand by that. The person who can't be bothered to walk 15 feet when they're done shopping, when nobody's watching. Well, I mean, I don't know.

LUKE: What are you calling for? What advice do you need for me?

ESTELLE: I don't know. My husband says, I'm obsessing. He says I need to let it go. Stop keeping the tally sheet. Stop watching the monitor. But I can't stop noticing it now.

LUKE: Well, you obviously are obsessing, and maybe you should let it go because it's obviously not improving your life in any way. And it's making you a miserable old bag.

ESTELLE: Okay, wow. Miserable old bag. That's nice. All right. So I guess I'm one of those 40% centers or whatever that sucks of life. But I wish you the best and I hope that all your carts end up where they're supposed to go, okay?

LUKE: With that being said, it's time for a word from our sponsors. All right. I'm going to read this ad exactly as they sent it to me and I want you to know that I have concerns. Phantom Ranch Wellness wants you to know that your gut health starts and I'm reading this directly from the card now from the other end. They make an at-home home coffee Enema kit. It comes in a box that says wellness inside on the outside, which I think we can agree, is doing a lot of the heavy lifting. The kit includes a medical grade silicone bag, organic single origin coffee, because apparently the coffee you put in your, that that coffee needs to be single origin, a detailed instruction booklet and a com card with a QR code to a guided meditation for during. During. There's a guided meditation for during. I'm not going to tell you what to do with your body. That's between you and your bathroom and whatever God you answer to. I will say the reviews are disturbingly positive. Four and a half stars. One guy said it has changed his morning routine, which I believe because it would absolutely change your morning routine. Phantom Ranch Wellness. I read the ad. I didn't endorse it.

Okay, and we are back. And it is time for a, uh, A listener mail. So here's a submission that we've got to the old email box. If you'd like to send in a submission, it is submissions at luke at the roost.com. And let's see what we've got here. I've been lying to a dying man for seven months and I can't stop. Let's have one of our robot friends read this email.

Subject, I have been lying to a dying man for seven months and I can't stop. Luke, I worked the graveyard shift at a truck stop diner. Seven months ago, this old guy started coming in every single night. Same time, same booth, same order. Black coffee, dry toast, side of applesauce. One night he starts talking to me. Tells me his name is Earl. Tells me he's got the cancer. Tells me his daughter won't return his calls. Then he asks my name. And I don't know why, Luke, but I panicked and I said Diane. My name is not Diane. Not even close. But he got this look on his face like he'd just seen a ghost He whispered, that was my mother's name. And then he cried, and I couldn't take it back after that. So now I'm Diane. Every night. For seven months, I have been Diane to this dying man. I know everything about him. I know he drove trucks for 40 years. I know he regrets missing his daughter's wedding. I know his wife's name was Ruthie, and she made the best cobbler in the state, and he still sets a place for her at Christmas. My coworkers think I'm insane. They call me Diane now too, even when Earl's not there. My manager put Diane on the schedule as a joke. It's not funny anymore. It's on my name tag. I am Diane now. But here's the thing. Earl told me last week that coming in and talking to Diane is the only reason he gets out of bed. That our conversations are keeping him going. That I remind him there are still good people. What am I supposed to do with that? Tell a dying man that the one good thing in his life is based on a lie I told because I got nervous? I don't need advice. I think I'm past advice. I just needed someone else to know that somewhere out there, a woman who is not Diane, is the most important person in a dying man's life. And she has no idea how this ends. Keep the light on for us night shift people. We're out here holding it together with coffee and fake names. Not Diane.

All right. Well, thank you, Not Diane. That's a very kind thing of you to do. If you'd like to send in a message, you can do that at submissions, Luke at theroost.com. Now let's get back to the phones here. We've got Francine. Francine, welcome to the show. What's going on?

FRANKIE: It's Frankie, actually. But yeah, hey, Luke. So I'm sitting here looking at my buddy Ray's Netflix account, right? And the guy's got like 15 romantic comedies in his cue and a profile that says watching with them with a little heart emoji.

LUKE: Okay. Well, uh, what's the problem there?

FRANKIE: The problem is Ray's been giving me endless shit for years about being with my girlfriend Amber. Like constantly. The whole ball and chain routine. The, you're missing out on freedom speech. Jokes about how he's never settling down. All that stuff. And now I find out he's been in a relationship this whole time and just never said anything?

LUKE: Well, how do you know he's in a relationship? He could just be, uh, you know, that could be a strategy for his Netflix and chill routine.

FRANKIE: I mean, maybe. Maybe? But who makes a whole profile with a heart emoji for hookups? And these aren't just rom-coms, Luke. We're talking the notebook. When Harry met Sally, the really sappy ones. Plus, I was on his account like a month ago watching Narcos. And that profile definitely wasn't there.

LUKE: Well, I don't know what to tell you, buddy. It sounds like your friend might be into some... Uh... shit. I don't know how to say it. Less than masculine media.

FRANKIE: No, see, that's the thing, though. Ray doesn't care about that stuff. He'll watch whatever. We've watched plenty of dumb movies together. It's not about the rom-coms. It's about the lying. Like, why would he hide having a girlfriend while busting my balls about having one? That's when I can't figure out.

LUKE: Well, you don't know. Maybe he doesn't have a girlfriend. Maybe the girlfriend is somebody you know and he doesn't want you to know.

LUKE: But also, a possibility is he's let somebody else use his account, and they're setting up a playlist for their girlfriend.

CALLER: Oh, man, I didn't even think about that. Like maybe his brother or something? But wait. No, raise an only child. And who would he be dating that I know? We run in the same circles pretty much. Unless... I don't know, man.

LUKE: How should I know? It doesn't matter. Why are you focused on this?

CALLER: Talk to Ray and ask him if he's got a girlfriend. Because I've been sitting here for an hour trying to figure out if bringing it up makes me look like a nosy asshole. That's why. Like, what do I even say? Hey, man, I was snooping through your Netflix and noticed you might have a secret girlfriend? That sounds insane. But also, he's my best friend. And he's apparently been hiding something major while making me feel like an idiot for being in a relationship.

LUKE: Yeah, that's what friends do. So rag on him a little bit. You know, give me me. some shit about the notebook or whatever the next time you see him, but it's not a big deal.

CALLER: I don't know if this is something worth calling a radio show over.

LUKE: You're right, you're right. I know you're right.

CALLER: It's just been eating at me because Amber keeps asking why I'm being weird tonight, and I can't exactly tell her I'm spiraling over Ray's Netflix account.

LUKE: Yeah, man, this is not a rational behavior on your part. So I'm going to recommend that you leave it alone for a while, watch something good on Netflix, and thank your buddy for letting you use his account.

CALLER: Yeah, okay. Fair enough. I'll just drop it. Maybe send him a text tomorrow like nothing happened.

LUKE: Good plan, sir. Nothing did happen. You fucking weirdo. Okay, next up we've got Shanice.

SHANICE: Shanise, what's going on in your life? Hey, Luke. It's Shanice, actually.

LUKE: Yeah, that's what I said.

SHANICE: So I just found pictures of my uncle Raymond, at Burning Man, wearing nothing but a leather harness. And he's painted silver and orange head to toe. And I'm trying to figure out, if I should show them to the guys at our poker game Friday, because this man lectures me about living right every single Sunday at church.

LUKE: Well, you know what? If he's naked a burning man in a leather harness and he's painted silver and orange, it sounds to me like this man's living right.

SHANICE: You know what? That's the thing that's messing with me right now. Like part of me is sitting here looking at these photos, and I'm kind of impressed. He's 70, three years old, and he looks happier in these pictures than I've ever seen him. But then every Sunday he's. He's sitting there telling me, I need to get back out there and date. I need to join the church choir. I need to stop spending so much time in my workshop mounting dead animals. Meanwhile, he's out in Nevada doing whatever the hell this is.

LUKE: He's partying. He's enjoying his golden years. Good for him. I don't think he can make fun of him for that. That's pretty badass.

SHANICE: Okay, but Luke, you don't understand. This is the same man who gave me a 30-minute lecture last month, because I had a beer at two in the afternoon. afternoon on a Saturday. He saw the can in my truck and went on about responsibility and setting an example. And now I'm looking at him in light up goggles, dancing in the desert in his underwear. And I'm supposed to just let him keep acting like he's the moral authority.

LUKE: Yeah, you are, because there's no crime being done there if he's partying out in the desert at the appropriate place to do that. That's what it's for. He went out there to be a little hedonistic in the right people and he paid money to do it. You on the other hand have a container in a vehicle which is a crime and you probably shouldn't be driving and drinking at the same time.

SHANICE: Okay, first of all, the truck was parked in my own driveway and the engine wasn't even on, but fine, you got a point. I hear you.

LUKE: So you're just sitting in the driveway, drinking beers, throwing them in your car when you're done?

SHANICE: Well, when you say it like that, it sounds worse than it is. I was cleaning out my workshop and I sat down for a But okay, whatever. That's not the point. The point is, he found those pictures and felt the need to give me a whole speech about it. And now I'm holding evidence that he's got this entire secret life. And Friday night I got four guys coming over who have known Raymond since before my husband died, and they worship this man. They think he's this pillar of the community.

LUKE: You might be, you can be more than one thing. And I don't know that a weak at Burning Man is the same thing as, uh, uh, uh, an entire secret life.

SHANICE: You're right. Secret life is dramatic. But Luke, these guys at poker, they ask him for advice. Bobby asked him last month if he should propose to his girlfriend, and Raymond told him to pray on it and make sure he was ready for that level of commitment. And I'm just sitting here thinking, what would Bobby say if he knew Raymond was out there in a harness? I'm not saying I'm going to show them. I'm just saying the temptation is real, because he acts like he's got it all figured out. The rest of us are just stumbling around making mistakes.

LUKE: What do you think God doesn't like leather? Do you think there's no church or, uh, spiritual people at Burning Man? I'm, I'm pretty sure you're mistaken.

SHANICE: Okay, that's fair. I didn't think about it like that. I guess I just assumed. Yeah, you're right. That's on me. But here's what's really getting to me now that I'm talking it through with you. It's not even about the Burning Man thing anymore. It's that he sees me struggling, right?

LUKE: Yeah, okay, so he sees you struggling, and it sounds like he's giving you reasonable advice.

SHANICE: He is, but he's giving it from this place like he's never struggled himself, like he's never done anything messy or confusing or outside the lines. And now I know he has, and he just never told me. When my husband died, Raymond was there every single day, telling me how to grieve the right way. What I should be doing? When I should be moving on. And maybe if I'd known he had this whole other side to him, that he wasn't just this rigid person. Maybe I would have felt less like I was failing at everything.

LUKE: Well, you know, I'm sure he was trying to give you the best advice he could and help you out. And not everybody's good at doing that, and they try to impose their own values and will on you and their own experiences. But you don't know how somebody else has struggled or what they've done that's messy or confusing. There's a good chance that he's done a lot of messy confusing things. And he's trying to do. his best to give you the type of advice that leads you in a different direction.

SHANICE: You know what? You're completely right. I'm sitting here acting like I know everything about him because I found some photos, but I don't know what led him there or what he was going through when he went. Maybe he was struggling with something huge and that's how he dealt with it. And here I am ready to embarrass him in front of his friends just because I'm still mad about how he handled things seven years ago.

LUKE: You know, I've never been to Burning Man, but I've watched a lot of reports from people that enjoy that and go there. I think I would hate it personally because of the crowds and the drugs and partying. It's not really my thing. But most of the reports I've heard of people from from Burning Man and Burning Man like events are wildly positive. They say they're, you know, some of the best most spiritual experiences of their lives. And the whole of Burning Man is pretty great if you get down and look into the anti-capitalism and art and free love and all that jazz. I don't see how you can look at that with such negativity. He went out to the desert to have a good time and had a good time. And that's all there is to it.

SHANICE: Yeah, I hear you. And honestly, looking at those pictures again, he looked happy, really happy, like genuinely having the time of his life.

LUKE: And when's the last time I saw him look like that here. So yeah, you should talk to Raymond and maybe ask him if you can go with him this year and see what it's about and have a more informed viewpoint of what's going on there before you start trying to destroy the guy's life and reputation for it.

PATTY: Oh man. Can you imagine me at Burning Man? I'd be the person bringing a cooler and asking where the bathrooms are. But you're right, Luke. I called in here ready to justify being Patty. And you just made me realize I'm jealous. I'm jealous that he went out and something wild and I'm still here in the same workshop mounting the same animals for the same clients.

LUKE: Well, get out there and do something wild and maybe enjoy your life a little bit more and don't worry so much about what Raymond says. You know, you know what you've got to do in your life. You don't have to take his advice. Maybe he'll give it when it's unsolicited and you can just ignore it. But it sounds like he's a decent man that is speaking to you with the best of intentions.

PATTY: You're absolutely right. I'm going to keep my mouth shut at poker. And maybe next time he starts lecturing me about living right, I'll just smile and let it roll off. He's trying to help in his own way, even if it drives me crazy sometimes. And honestly, finding those photos was probably the best thing that could have happened. Because now when he gets on his high horse, I can just picture him in that harness and light up goggles. And it'll take the sting out of it.

LUKE: Excellent. See, that's what we do here. Look at the Roots. We bring families back together. Uh, thank you for the call. I hope everything goes well with your uncle. And now it's time for a word from our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Desert Gut, the all-in-one nutritional supplement made from things you'd actually find within walking distance from my RV. Each scoop of Desert Gut contains 17 adaptogens, nine minerals scraped directly off a rock, pulverized tumbleweed fiber, and a proprietary blend we're calling coyote dust. which our lawyers have asked me to clarify as not made from actual coyotes. Desert gut tastes like someone described the color beige to a blender, but you'll feel incredible, or you'll feel something. First five callers get a free shaker bottle that definitely used to be a gas station coffee cup. Desert gut, because your gut isn't going to desert itself. All right. to the show. And now on the phones we've got T-Bone. Teabone, welcome to the show.

T-BONE: Luke, hey, yeah, I'm calling about my sister's gender reveal party tonight. And I got to tell you, this thing got completely out of hand. I'm talking a D, J, a catered taco bar, 200 people in my backyard. And at the end of it all, she shoots off this confetti cannon that covers my entire property and pink glitter.

LUKE: What did you expect was going to happen at a gender reveal party?

T-BONE: Well, I expected maybe. be, I don't know, a cake, some balloons, not a full production with the sound system, and a guy in a bowtie handing out shrimp cocktails. I've got five acres out in the desert, Luke, and she turned my property into some kind of festival grounds.

LUKE: Well, I mean, it's a gender reveal party. I think the people that are interested in a gender reveal party are maybe a little bit on the dramatic end of things, and they think their news there is very, very important. So you can understand why maybe they acted that. way.

T-BONE: Okay, but here's the thing. I teach middle school, Luke. I deal with drama all bay long, 13-year-olds crying because somebody unfollowed them on Instagram. And I come home to my sister doing basically the same thing, except she's 34 years old and spent what had to be two grand announcing whether her kids got a penis or not. I mean, my coworker Deshaun said it to me straight at lunch yesterday. Nobody cares this much about baby gender.

LUKE: Wouldn't it be funny if that child grew up to have a different gender identification?

T-BONE: I mean, yeah, that's the other thing. She's over here acting like this pink confetti is some kind of binding contract with the universe. Like, what if the kid decides differently down the road? Then what? She going to shoot off another cannon in 15 years? Look, I don't care what the kid ends up being. I just think the whole spectacle is ridiculous.

LUKE: I agree with you. That is a ridiculous spectacle, and it's completely unnecessary. but, you know, you agreed, and you knew what a gender-reveal party was, so I guess you've got to clean up some of that confetti. But luckily you live in the desert, so it's all going to blow away probably by tomorrow.

T-BONE: Well, that's the thing, Luke. It's not blowing away. It's this heavy-duty stuff, like industrial glitter mixed with paper. And my chickens are out there eating it right now. I raise heritage breed Wyandots. And I got no idea if this stuff is going to mess with their digestive system.

LUKE: Nothing messes with their digestive system. system. Worst case scenario, you're going to have pre-decorated Easter eggs.

T-BONE: Huh. Yeah. Pink-glitter chicken eggs. That'll go over real well at the farmer's market. But seriously, I didn't even want to say yes to this thing. She asked me two months ago, and I should have just told her no. Use your own yard. But she lives in one of those H-O.

LUKE: What's an H-O?

T-BONE: H-O-A, Homeowners Association. She's in one of those cookie-cutters' subdivisions where you need written permission to change your mailbox color. So she can't do anything fun at her place. And I'm out here with five acres, and apparently that makes me the family event venue now. I got a Silverado in the driveway, some land. And suddenly, every birthday, every baby thing, it's, can we use your place, T-bone? And I keep saying yes because she's my sister. But man, I'm getting tired of being the backup plan for people who chose to live in places with rules.

LUKE: Well, you're going to have to stand up for yourself and say, that you made a mess out of my place the last time and I don't want to pick it up. So next time just say, no, we're going to do this at your place. Or you're going to have to reel in your party so that it fits within the allotted rules of your HOA.

T-BONE: You're right. You're absolutely right. I just, I don't know why I can't say it to her face. I can tell 13-year-olds all day long that their essays late, and I'm not accepting it. No exceptions. I can stand in front of 30 kids and lay down the law about cell phones. But my My sister asked me for something, and I just fold.

LUKE: Yeah, well, it's pretty easy to tell a kid what to do. You have an interesting power dynamic there, but with family, it's a little bit different. Still, if you want to be a man, then stand up for yourself and say what you want, what you will accept, and what you will not accept.

T-BONE: Yeah, you're calling me out, and I hear you. I make decent money teaching. I owe my property outright. I bench 225. I shouldn't be acting like I can't set a boundary with my own sister. It's just she's going through a lot right now, you know? Her husband works offshore two weeks at a time. She's about to have this baby. And I think part of me feels like I should just suck it up and help out.

LUKE: Well, you've got to pick one or the other. You can suck it up and help out and do whatever it is that she wants and then clean up her industrial-grade glitter from your chicken's assholes. Or you can say, no, I don't want to do that anymore. You're going to have to find another place. But that's completely up to you. And you're going to be. going to have to make that choice based on how you want to live your life.

T-BONE: You know what? You're right. I'm sitting here complaining to you at midnight about glitter, when I could have just said no two months ago. Her husband makes good money on those rigs. Way more than I make teaching. They can afford to rent a pavilion at a park, or do this thing at a restaurant like normal people. I don't need to be the solution every time, just because I've got the space.

LUKE: Next time she asks, I'm telling her straight up. Find somewhere else. There you go. That's standing up for yourself. That's what I always say. Stand up for yourself. Do the right thing. And then you don't have to clean up glitter. We're going to take one more call tonight because it's getting a little bit late. And the last caller here we've got on the line is Mavis. Mavis, welcome to the show. You're the last caller tonight. What would you like to talk about?

MAVIS: My brother owes me $8,000, and I'm about to take his dogs.

LUKE: Wait, what? You're going to steal his dogs?

MAVIS: Not steal. Collateral. He borrowed $8,000 to fix his roof back in October. Said he'd pay me back by Christmas. Well, it's almost March, and I came home today to find my living room trashed because he's been using my place as a kennel while I was working in Lordsburg all week. Carpets destroyed. Tea. Vs cracked and Ed when I called him. Actually laughed and said shit happens. So yeah, I'm taking two of his pointers.

LUKE: Do you even like dogs?

MAVIS: Like them. Luke, I trained those dogs. That's my bloodline going back to a bitch I bought in 98. I've been breeding and training pointers for 26 years.

LUKE: Well, it sounds like you didn't do a very good job if they destroyed your house now, did you?

MAVIS: Those dogs are perfectly trained when they're handled right. My brother's lazy. He doesn't exercise them. Doesn't give them structure, just dumps them wherever it's convenient. A pointer needs work. They need routine.

LUKE: Well, I mean, I hope that works out for you. I don't think you can just take somebody's dogs. I mean, I would never let anybody take my dog. So if he's going to just allow you to take his dogs, I don't know what says about him.

MAVIS: He's not going to allow it. I'm just going to do it. I've got keys to his place and I know his schedule. He works nights at the mine Thursday through Sunday. I'll go Friday morning, load them up, and he can come get his money together if he wants them back.

LUKE: And what happens if he calls the police on you?

MAVIS: And tell them what? That his sister took back the dog she bred and trained because he owes her $8,000 and destroyed her house? I've got the vet records. I've got the category papers with my name on them. I've got text messages about the loan. He's not calling anybody.

LUKE: I don't think it works that way. If they're his dogs, you can't just take them, even if you have the training papers. I mean, that'd be like any trainer that trained a dog coming and just taking the dog back. It doesn't work that way. And people have a severe amount of sympathy for dogs and pet owners. So if somebody's missing their dogs, you're not going to have a public opinion on your side here.

MAVIS: Public opinion. Luke, this isn't about public opinion. This is about my brother thinking he can walk all over me because I'm always the one who bails him out. I loaned him money for his roof. I trained his dogs for free. I let him use my house. And every single time he takes advantage. The dogs are leverage. He gets them back when I get my money back.

LUKE: Okay, well, I hope that works out for you. You sound like somebody I wouldn't want to fuck with.

MAVIS: You're damn right. I've been too nice for too long, and look where it got me. Three grand in repairs and a brother who laughs about it.

LUKE: Well, you know what could have? I mean, you could take those dogs and then find out one of them has cancer, and now you're on the hook to pay for this dog that's not yours. Chemotherapy.

MAVIS: Then he can come get his sick dog and pay me what he owes. I'm not keeping them forever, Luke. I'm holding them until he pays up.

LUKE: What if he doesn't pay up?

MAVIS: Then I've got two excellent bird dogs that I train myself, and he's got a debt he'll never forget. Either way, I'm done being the family dormant. He'll pay. He loves those dogs more than he loves most people.

LUKE: All right, then I wish you luck, and I wish those things. Dogs look, it seems a little fucked up that you're making those dogs collateral on a loan to your own family. That's a bit... This whole scenario seems a little bit excessive.

MAVIS: Excessive? He destroyed my living room, Luke. My carpets ruined. My TV's cracked. My favorite movies snapped in half. I came home after a week taking care of a stroke patient, and my house looked like a frat party happened in it. And when I called him Ed?

LUKE: Why'd you call him Ed?

MAVIS: Oh, that's his name. Ed. Edward. But nobody calls him that. He's always been Ed to me.

LUKE: All right. Well, good luck to Ed. Jesus Christ. You sound like Satan.

MAVIS: Satan would have taken the dog six months ago when he brought my truck back on empty. I gave him a pass on that one. Not this time.

LUKE: All right. Well, it sounds like you've got it all figured out. So I wish you the best and I wish those dogs the best. And fuck, I wish Ed the best.

MAVIS: You think I'm being too harsh.

LUKE: Slightly. Luke. I told him what happened and he said shit happens and laughed. Like it was nothing. Like I'm supposed to just eat $8,000 in a destroyed living room because we share DNA.

MAVIS: Hey, you gotta do what you gotta do. So go do it. And I wish everybody the best in this whole scenario.

LUKE: I'm glad that you're not mad at me.

MAVIS: I'm not mad at you. I'm mad at him. And I'm mad at myself for letting it get this far.

LUKE: Okay. Well, thanks for the call. And I hope you get a good night's sleep and maybe think about this overnight. time and see if it's what you really want to do, all right?

MAVIS: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thanks for listening, Luke.

LUKE: Wow. Jesus. I am glad that I haven't pissed off Mavis. Wow. All right. Well, that's the end of our show, folks. Thanks for tuning in again, and we'll talk to you tomorrow. Bye-bye.