LUKE: All right, all right, welcome back. I am Luke, and this is Luke at the Roost. It's your late night call-in radio show where you can give us a call, and I'll give you advice about whatever's going on in your life, no matter how ridiculous or petty or nonsensical it is. If you'd like to give us a call, the number's 208-439-583. That's 208-439 Luke. right now and you'd still like to participate. You can send us an email anytime. The email address is submissions at luke at the roost.com. Today is Monday, March 9th. It's about 1 a.m. And we're about to get on the air here with our friend Otis. Otis, welcome to the show. Thanks for calling in. How can we help you tonight?

OTIS: Hey, Luke, appreciate you taking my call. So look, I need some advice on how to tell people I faked having Six months ago, I told my sister I had prostate cancer to get out of her fourth wedding. And now there's been a GoFundMe, a pancake breakfast fundraiser. My cousin shaved his head for me, and I just got a text with a picture of a check for $4,700. I have been trying to figure out how to come clean without everyone in Hatch wanting to murder me, and I am running out of time here.

LUKE: That's pretty extreme. You must have really not wanted to go to that wedding. The only way out of this one is to give yourself prostate cancer. You should try eating some Oreos or something.

OTIS: You know what? I actually looked into whether you can give yourself cancer through diet, and apparently it takes like 30 years of really dedicated work.

LUKE: I bet.

OTIS: So that timeline does not help me. But yeah, the wedding thing, her name is Delia, and this was husband number four. The guy owns a car wash in Las Cruces, and she wanted me to walk her down the aisle again because our dad is not in the picture. And I already did it twice, Luke, twice. The third wedding, I was in Guatemala, supposedly on a work trip, but I was actually just staying at my buddy Fernando's place in Deming, eating Cheetos and watching Netflix for a week. This time, I panicked and went bigger.

OTIS: Martinez looked at my chart, did the exam, and then he sat down and he said, Otis, I don't know what you've been telling people, but you don't have prostate cancer. And I said, I know, Doc, I know. Long story. But you do have an enlarged prostate, and we should probably keep an eye on it. Could turn into something down the road. So now I'm sitting here thinking, what if I actually manifested this? What if I lied myself into almost having the thing I said I had?

LUKE: Well, you know, enlarged prostate is a serious matter. And maybe you should get some help from one of our sponsors here, the coffee enema. Maybe if you, you know, a large prostate is a serious matter. start doing that coffee enema nightly, it'll help your prostate tumor along. And then you're scot-free. Then you'll have the prostate cancer and you'll be honest with people going forward and you'll die an honest man.

OTIS: Luke, I cannot believe you just try to sell me a coffee enema while I'm having a moral crisis. That's beautiful. That's why I listen to this show.

LUKE: It is a thing of beauty. It's really going to change your routine. That's what they say in the old ad. But, yeah, sir, I think you're a seriously disturbed individual. I don't know who watches Dune 2 three times. That's a long movie. I think you might be on your own with this one. And maybe you should try to stick to the truth going forward and just sit through the awful wedding as opposed to getting a whole town morning for you and running fundraisers.

OTIS: You're right. You're absolutely right. But the worst part is I've been using some of that GoFund me money.

LUKE: Of course you have.

OTIS: But like, I fixed my transmission.

LUKE: You know, I've had some time to think about this, and I'm going to change my stance. I think what you should do tomorrow is get yourself down at the town hall and run for office because I think you'll really get the sympathy vote and you, I think you have what it takes to be a politician. And you might really be able to make yourself some real money in the politics arena.

OTIS: Luke, I don't have the stomach for politics.

LUKE: You got the prostate for it.

OTIS: Last time I tried to lie my way out of something, I ended up with a go-fund me and a cousin who shaved his head. If I ran for office, by the time the election rolled around, the whole town would think I was running for mayor and had terminal cancer. Next thing you know, I'm getting a key to the city and a funeral plot in the same ceremony.

LUKE: Well, that sounds like a win-win, sir. Then all the problems are solved with that one small act of civic service.

OTIS: You know what, Luke? You might be onto something. I could be the first mayor of Hatch to campaign from a coffin. Vote for Otis. He's already given everything for this town. Put that on a bumper sticker. My campaign slogan could be, I've got nothing left to lose, literally. But seriously, I still got to figure out what to tell my mom.

LUKE: I think you've got to tell your mom that your stomach is upset and you're not feeling very good and you don't think you have much longer left. And hopefully, she gets worried enough that her heart goes into cardiac arrest and then you don't have to worry about that problem anymore.

OTIS: Jesus, Luke, that's dark even for you. My mom's the only person in this whole mess who actually cares whether I live or die.

LUKE: What are you talking about? The whole town care. You get them all out there and shaving their heads and shit. Everybody cares if you live or die. Or at least they want people to think they care if you live or die. Either way.

OTIS: You're right. That's the problem. They all care now because I'm dying. Six months ago, nobody gave a damn. I was just Otis, who works at UPS, and tells bad jokes at the bar.

LUKE: Well, Otis, I don't know what else to tell you. I'm going to pray for you. I've heard that the power of prayer can do wonderful thing. So we'll hope that that enlarged prostate turns into a tumorous prostate, and we can make an honest man out of you yet. We're going to have to go to the next caller now. I wish we had more advice for you, but you really fucked yourself on this one, sir. Do you have anything else you'd like to finish up with?

OTIS: Yeah, Luke, just one thing. If this whole prayer thing works, and I actually do get cancer, I'm coming back on this show, and we're going to have a very different conversation about the power of your intercession. Thanks for nothing.

LUKE: Yeah, you know, you're welcome. I'll have a pancake for you, buddy. Next up, we've got Brandy. Brandy, welcome to the show. What's going on in your life?

BRANDY: I just found out my boss is planning to bail on the company I've been wiring solar farms for, and he has no idea. I know.

LUKE: What do you mean bail on the company? A company that you're a vendor of, you're working with a partner of, you're working with a partner of, or is it the actual company that you work for.

BRANDY: The actual company I work for, Solar Tech. I'm an electrician there, have been for eight years. My boss, Rick, was on speaker fund with some HR person, talking about how the CEO couldn't manage a lemonade stand, how the whole place is a house of cards, how he'd be gone by summer if they made it worth his while. I was just microwaving my desk salad in the break room.

LUKE: Well, I mean, running a lemonade stand is harder than people might think. You've got to pay attention to the books. You might have to manage some employees, and then they're going to have sniffly noses and stuff, and then customers are going to get upset, and it's a whole big thing. So I don't want you to think that CEOs can't manage a lemonade stand. It's harder than you might think. What you just described to me is literally every business. It's all a big house of cards and a show. So I don't understand why this is bothering you. Who cares if your CEO is going to bail.

BRANDY: Because Rick's the one who signs my checks, and if he's already got one fed out the door, that means my job's on a timer too. I'm not talking about some abstract corporate drama. I'm talking about the guy who approves my overtime, who decides whether we get new safety gear or keep using the same frayed gloves from 2018. If he's making exit plans, that's not just business as usual. That's me showing up to a job site next month and finding out the company's been sold off, or worse, that they've cut my departures to save on payroll. I've got rent. I've got a truck payment. I've got, look, I get that every company's a mess. But when the guy in charge of your paycheck starts treating the place like a sinking ship, you start wondering if you should have brought a life jacket to work.

LUKE: Well, no, that's not really quite how it works. CEOs are like those sniffly noses. They come and go seasonally. They just swap one out with another one. And then he tries to make his initiatives known the company and be the golden boy for a little while, and then that fails, and then they swap him out again. And that's just how it goes.

BRANDY: Rick's not the CEO. Rick's my direct boss. He's the operations manager. The CEO is the guy he was trashing on the phone. Rick's the one who decides if I get assigned to the good jobs or the garbage ones. If my hours get cut when things slow down, if I'm even still on the roster when he decides to jump ship, you swap out a CEO, fine, whatever. But when the guy who actually runs the day-to-day, starts bad-mouthing the company to HR and talking about his exit strategy, that trickles down to people like me real fast.

LUKE: Well, not necessarily. See, if you're smart, then people like you trickle up to an operational manager. So somebody's going to have to replace the guy, and it might as well be you. That's what I say. So if I were you, you've got some insider information right now. I would be making some alliances within that company and trying to get my foot in the door for your buddy, Rick's job.

BRANDY: I wire junction boxes and troubleshoot inferters when the monsoons fry the grid.

LUKE: Yeah. I appreciate that. I guess I just needed to hear someone say, it's not the end of the world.

BRANDY: It's not the end of the world, Brandi. You're going to be just fine.

LUKE: Thank you for the call. And now it's time for us to go to a word from our sponsors. And we're going to go to the coffee anima sponsor just in case Otis is still around because these guys could maybe help him out with his prostate enlargement. All right. I'm going to read this ad exactly as they sent it to me. And I want you to know that I have concerns. The branch wellness wants you to know that your gut health starts, and I'm reading this directly from the card now, from the other end. They make an at-home coffee enema kit. It comes in a box that says wellness inside, on the outside, which I think we can agree, is doing a lot of the heavy lifting. The kit includes a medical grade silicone bag, organic single origin coffee, because apparently the coffee you put in your, that that coffee needs to be single origin, a detailed instruction booklet, and a com card with a QR code to a guided meditation for during. During. There's a guided meditation for during. I'm not going to tell you what to do with your body. That's between you and your bathroom and whatever God you answer to. I will say the reviews are disturbingly positive. Four and a half stars. One guy said it has changed his morning routine, which I believe because it would absolutely change your morning routine. Phantom Ranch Wellness. I read the ad. I didn't endorse it. All right. And hopefully Otis was still around for that. He can give them a call and they can get him sorted. Next up on the line, we've got Keith. Keith, welcome to the show. What's going on tonight? How can we help you, sir?

KEITH: Hey, Luke, thanks for taking my call. So I've been watching my 26-year-old stepson crash and burn through his third job this year. And he just posted this whole thing on social media about how they didn't appreciate him. And I'm sick getting here thinking we absolutely destroyed this kid's generation with participation trophies and constant praise for doing the bare minimum.

LUKE: Well, why are you looking at it like that? And not that we've absolutely destroyed the workplace and people are not appreciated as human beings there anymore. He might be right. That's been my experience is that companies don't give a fuck about you. So why should you give a fuck about them?

KEITH: Okay, but Luke, he got written up for being late five times in two months and his response was to tell his manager that the start time didn't align with his personal energy rhythms. His personal energy rhythms. This isn't some evil corporation grinding him down. This is a local marketing firm that gave him flex hours and let him work from home twice a week. They bent over backwards for this kid and he still couldn't show up on time or take feedback without getting defensive. I'm not saying every workplace is perfect, but at some point you have to ask yourself if maybe the problem is that we raised a generation that thinks showing up is enough?

LUKE: I mean, I can ask myself that I didn't raise any part of this generation, so I take no part in it. But I don't know.

LUKE: It's hard to say because we've allowed a workplace environment where just paying the bare minimum is enough. So why isn't just showing up enough?

EARL: Because that's not how anything works, Luke. You don't get to coast in life and expect rewards. I run a logistics company. I've got drivers who show up every single day, on time, in the snow, in hundred 100 degree heat and they do their jobs without needing a pat on the back every five minutes. That's what adults do. But this kid, and I'm seeing it with the new hires too, they expect praise just for clocking in.

LUKE: Well, you know, things change. I'm trying to play the devil's advocate here. I do agree with you on some level, but it's not. I can't just get behind that this new generation is shit. Because in my experience, the workplace has gone to shit and people are not respected and they expect too much all the time. Like, people will complain that people come into work and do the bare minimum while they pay them the literal legal minimum wage. There's no reward. What's the reward there? They can't even afford to live. That's not reward.

EARL: All right, fair point on the minimum wage thing. I'm not talking about someone making eight bucks an hour at a fast food place. This kid was making 42,000 a year with benefits at a job friend got him. Forty-two thousand to post on Instagram and write email campaigns. And you know what his complaint was?

LUKE: I don't care what his complaint was, really, because $42,000 isn't enough to wipe your ass. $42,000 a year is not a lot of money. That's about what you can expect somebody to just show up for. If you want to, like, what do you think $42,000 is? Come on. Can you buy a house with $42,000? Could you buy a car with $42,000?

EARL: Luke, he lives in his money. He lives in his money basement rent free. He's not trying to buy a house. And yeah, $42,000 for a 26-year-old entry-level marketing job in Salt Lake is pretty standard. I started at a warehouse making $19,000 in the 90s, which is probably like 35 now with inflation. And I didn't have my parents paying my rent.

LUKE: Yeah, well, good for him, but we're talking on an overall level for all people. And because $42,000 is the standard, that doesn't make it right, and that's the, you're getting what you pay for. You get what you pay for. And if you're paying $42,000, which I don't know if you've noticed, but diesel is $4.15 a gallon right now. You're going to get the minimum back from them. If you're giving them a living wage where they don't have to, you know, worry about how they're going to make ends meet, after working eight, 10, 12 hours a day, posting stupid Instagram ads that some douchebag that doesn't know anything about marketing or graphic design has forced them to make. Yeah, that's shitty. It's a shitty job. It's a shitty workplace. And I can't really blame this new generation for being less than ideal workers because they're not being treated fairly.

EARL: Okay, but here's the thing. He was being treated fairly. This kid had a job that paid more than minimum wage with benefits, and he still couldn't hack it. And I'm not saying every workplace is perfect, but at some point you have to ask yourself, if you're not willing to put in the effort, why should anyone else put in the effort for you?

LUKE: I'm not seeing where any effort's been put in the effort in. The minimum... Where's the effort being expended here on anybody's part? And I'm not talking about him. You said the whole generation. I'm talking about everybody across the country that works for any company. Not just this one kid who may very well be a lazy douchebag with his personal energy rhythms and all that. I don't know. I don't understand all that. And it seems stupid to me, sure. But the larger point here is that companies are assholes and they don't deserve more than the minimum because they're giving the minimum.

EARL: You want to know where the effort is? This company gave him flex hours, let him work from home twice a week. His manager sat down with him personally to go over his performance reviews instead of just firing him. They paid for a LinkedIn learning subscription so he could build his skills. But the second he got written up for being late, not fired, written up, he quit and blamed them on social media. And Luke, I hear what you're saying about companies being assholes. I really do. But we can't just throw our hands up and say everyone's a victim.

LUKE: Yeah, that's true. And if they did make real attempts to work in his personal development, then yeah, he was an asshole about it. Sure. But we can throw our hands up and say everyone's a victim when everybody's being treated as a victim. And I would say the vast majority of people in the new generation are being treated like expendable victims. They're not being taken care of. It's more expensive to live than it ever has been. And when you get a good job, There is no level of job security. They don't get a pension. There's no loyalty. They could get laid off at any minute for any reason. I'm not seeing why they should feel the same level of work ethic that you and I did 20, 30 years ago. Because the companies are not treating people in the same way. Generally, I don't know what happened at this company. And maybe this kid is a piece of shit. I don't know. What question are you asking? How can I help you here?

EARL: I guess what I'm asking is, am I wrong to think we screwed this up? Because when I watch this kid bounce from job to job, posting about how the world doesn't understand him, I keep thinking about those participation trophies, about how we told an entire generation that just showing up was enough.

LUKE: I don't know, because I was never involved in the whole just showing up is enough. I missed that whole part of when we told people that. But what I saw was everything that I saw in the news and everything that I experienced experienced in the workplace and oh, now, sorry, you don't get your bonus because whatever, because we decided you don't. Or, oh, we actually can't do performance reviews because, oh, I don't know, whatever. And, oh, you know what, we don't want to raise the minimum wage because it costs us so much money to do these ad campaigns for Ronald McDonald, whatever the fuck it is and don't have that, I don't know, personal experience there. Like, I don't have kids, so I didn't give anybody any participation, participation trophies. What I saw from the workplace, from the corporate environment, deserves what happened. Like, you can see why it happened.

EARL: You know what? Maybe you're right. Maybe I'm blaming the trophies when I should be looking at the fact that his mother has been bailing him out his entire life. She got him the job. She lets him live rent-free, and every time he quits something, she tells him it's because he's too creative for these corporate environments.

LUKE: I'm sitting here mad at participation trophies when the real problem is he's never had to face a real consequence in his life because someone's always there to catch him.

EARL: Maybe. That could be. I don't know. But I've seen the world be not deserving of additional work ethic. We bail out the banks, too, when they fuck up and steal from us and do predatory lending. We're like, okay, well, you know, here's some money. And then they go spend that on their yachts publicly. Like, they don't even hide it. It's reprehensible. And then COVID happens. And then there's all that mess. And it's like every single event that you read about in the news about how the world works proves to these kids that the world doesn't give a fuck about you.

LUKE: Yeah, but Luke, at some point you still have to show up for yourself. I get it. The banks got bailed out. Corporations are greedy. The system is rigged. But what's the alternative? You just give up? You bounce from job to job posting about your energy rhythms and wait for the world to change because that's what I'm watching happen. And it's not getting him anywhere.

EARL: Well, maybe he doesn't want to go anywhere.

EARL: Because like you said, he's well taken care of where he's at. He's not paying rent. His mother bails him out. That's probably not good when you're, what did you say, 26 years old? Maybe you've got to set him loose. Set him for real to figure out his way in the world, but you can understand where he's coming from and why he's not as excited and eager to show loyalty and work ethic in the workplace. Because why? Why would you?

LUKE: Because I don't want him to end up like me. I'm 52 years old, and I've spent my whole life working for a company that's going to replace me with a spreadsheet the second I slow down. I don't have a pension. I don't have a 401k that's going to save me. And I sure as hell don't have a mother who's going to bail me out when I can't make rent. I want him to have something I never did. A safety net, sure, but also the drive to build something that lasts.

EARL: Well, you had the drive to build something that lasts, right? And how'd that work out for you? You've got the work ethic of our generation, don't you? How did that work out for you? Your company doesn't give a fuck? They're not even going to wait for a spreadsheet to replace you next week with AI, like everybody else. So, I mean, they're going to replace you with the cheapest version of you possible. So maybe he's got it right by tapping out of the whole capitalistic industrial complex and following his energy rhythms. I don't know. He could be right. The new generation, you know, let them figure it out. We don't have to act like we know anything. We obviously don't. We fucked it all up.

LUKE: You know what? You're absolutely right. I spent 30 years doing everything I was supposed to do. Showed up early, stayed late, never complained, put the company first. And what do I have to show for it. A boss half my age who doesn't know what I do, a salary that hasn't kept up with inflation, and the constant fear that one bad quarter means I'm gone. Maybe he looked at my life and said no thanks.

EARL: Yes. Maybe watching me grind myself down for nothing taught him exactly what not to do.

LUKE: Yes. And here I am calling you mad that he won't make the same mistakes I did.

EARL: Exactly. You know, maybe they're on the right track. I don't disagree with them. Totally. I mean, I find it annoying too when people are lazy and are not able to do the job and dumb, but people have been lazy and not able to do the job and dumb forever. That's always been the case. You can't just blame this generation for it or say it's because of a participation trophy. It's not. It's because they watched us destroy society and it's completely fucked. And they don't want to participate. And I don't blame them.

LUKE: Okay, but then what's the answer, Luke? Seriously, if the system's broken and opting out means living off your mom's good graces until she dies, then what? What are we supposed to do? What's the middle ground? Because I'm not saying he needs to be a corporate drone, but he also can't just float through life waiting for inspiration to strike while his stepdad, me, is working his butt off to keep the lights on for everyone.

EARL: Well, I think the answer is enough of the people. The entire generation is tapping out. And then that grinds the corporations to a halt because they actually need people to do the work. And if they're not showing up to do it, then they're going to have to, you know, change their ways. But as long as there's people with the work ethic to do it, and get ripped off every day and go in with a smile, they're going to continue. They're going to continue doing what they do. And it's never going to get better. So I think it sucks that it's just him and you're on the hook to support him and maybe you shouldn't and he'll have to find his way some other way, whether by starting his own business or being a fucking TikTok influencer or making money, getting leads for companies, whatever it is that he finds himself doing to make money, he has to make money to do that, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a nine to five job for some company that's going to out him as soon as they can.

LUKE: I hear you, but here's the thing. He's not out there trying to start a business or build something. He's just quitting jobs and posting about how the world doesn't understand his potential. And I get it. The system's rigged, but at some point you have to meet the system halfway.

EARL: Okay, well, you met the system halfway, and you must be on your way to retirement, right? Oh, no pension, right? No 401K, huh? So you're supporting him now with your bare minimum money, because $42,000 is really good in your mind, right? So when you get to retirement, if you ever get to retirement, who's going to take care of you?

LUKE: Nobody. That's the answer, Luke. Nobody's going to take care of me.

EARL: Well, you better hope that that kid figures it out then, huh?

LUKE: Yeah, well, that's the sick irony of it, isn't it? I'm sitting here mad at him for not grinding like I did, but the whole reason I want him to figure it out is because I know I'm going to need him someday. don't have savings. And his mom, my ex-wife, she's not going to be there for me when I'm 70 and can't work anymore. So maybe I'm not really mad that he's lazy.

EARL: Yeah, well, that makes more sense. And hopefully, I mean, you should be able to talk to him and maybe tell him that and put it in his mind. Like, hey, I understand that working sucks. And maybe you don't want to do this traditional nine to five stuff because it doesn't sync You're going to have to come up with a way to make money, and then maybe support and help different alternative ways of him doing that. And maybe he'll remember that. And when you're 70 and need some money, he'll be making it if there's still money left at all that Elon Musk doesn't have.

LUKE: You know what, Luke? That's actually the conversation I should have had instead of the one I've been having, which is just me telling him he's screwing up and needs to get his act together. Because all that does is make him defensive and makes me sound like every other boomer telling kids to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Maybe if I actually leveled with them and said, look, I played by the rules and it didn't work out. So let's figure out what does work for you. Maybe that gets somewhere? I don't know. It's hard to admit to your stepson that you don't have the answers when you spent 20 years pretending you did.

EARL: Yeah, I can understand that. And I think that's the right thing to do. And, you know, maybe you two can together come up with a solution that makes you both money and start some sort of a family business where you're doing the kind of work that you want to do, making the kind of money that you want to make, working the kind of energy flow routine that fits with everybody's lifestyle. That's the answer. It's not telling him to grind. Because grinding gets you nowhere, and you're proof of that.

LUKE: Yeah, I am proof of that. 25 years in logistics, and I'm one bad month away from being in real trouble. You're right. A family business. Something we build together. That actually makes sense.

EARL: Yeah, but don't pretend you know everything because you are a boomer, and you don't know everything. You don't know what the world is like today. You don't know what he knows about technology and about the trends and about what people his age are buying and want to put money towards. So take his lead and use his skills because he does have skills, even if you can't see them and you don't know what they are. They're there. And the boomers know, I mean, I don't know, Gen Z or whatever, Jen, they know what they want their world to look like. So if you can get on board with him, I think you'll do a better job than trying to force him on board with you.

LUKE: You're absolutely right. I don't know what I don't know. He grew up with the internet in his hand.

EARL: He sure did. And he understands how it works more than you know. So listen to him. And don't write him off as a lazy kid.

LUKE: Even if he is a little bit lazy, that's, I mean, you can work with that. You can try to impart some level of work ethic without pushing what you did. Because what you did didn't work. And it's not going to work. And it's going to work less and less and less every year that goes by. So you figure out what it is that he's got his pulse on.

EARL: You're right. I've been so focused on what he's not doing that I haven't asked him what he is doing or what he sees coming. He's on his phone all the time, and I just assume he's wasting time. But maybe he's actually paying attention to something I'm completely blind to. I need to stop lecturing and start listening.

LUKE: You know, that's something my mom did right when I was a kid. She got me a computer when I was really young and I spent all my time on that computer and everybody thought I was wasting time. wasn't wasting time. I was learning how fucking computers worked, and it was very lucrative for me in the 90s and 2000s. That's over now, but there was a time that it made me very, very valuable. I mean, more so than any of my teachers or anybody else that I even knew. So lean into what he's doing and support that, and it might pay dividends. That's my advice for you.

EARL: That's good advice, Luke. I appreciate it. I called in here thinking I was going to vent about trophies, and instead, you just made me realize I've been the problem. I need to have a different conversation with him.

LUKE: Yeah, man, and we can get rid of trophies altogether. We don't need trophies anymore. But thank you for the call. I hope that goes well for you. Let us know how it turns out, all right? Next up on the line, we've got Crystal. Crystal, welcome to the show. How can I help you today?

CRYSTAL: Hey, Luke, thanks for taking my call. So, I was out metal detecting this afternoon, which is something I do maybe once a week need to clear my head. And I found my phone. My actual phone that I lost two weeks ago, out past the old cemetery, still had battery somehow, which is crazy, right?

LUKE: Yeah, not bad. That's a, that's a solid battery. You must have it on low power mode.

CRYSTAL: Right. Yeah, I must have. But here's the thing. When I turned it on, I had all these messages I'd missed. And one of them was from another parent on my this link to a news article about Coach Mike, our coach, the kids coach, and it's about something that happened 15 years ago in Arizona.

LUKE: Okay, well, first of all, it's crazy that you went two weeks without a phone and you didn't replace that shit immediately and get your messages. I don't know how you can do that in today's world, but besides that, this doesn't sound like it's going to be a good story. What happened to the coach? What the coach do?

CRYSTAL: He was arrested for solicitation of a minor, 15, years ago in Tucson. He did 18 months, and I've been sitting in my workshop for three hours now, just staring at this article, because this is Mike we're talking about. Mike who brings orange slices in a cooler he hand-painted with the teen colors.

LUKE: Yeah, Mike the coach. I mean, could you be more cliche? Of course. That's exactly what I expected when you said, coach.

CRYSTAL: No, no, no. But you don't understand, Luke. This isn't just a coach. This is Coach Mike. My sister, she trusts him completely. He taught my nephew how to bunt for crying out loud. He shows up to every single game, even in monsoon season, when the rest of us are huddled under umbrellas, looking miserable. He's just...

LUKE: He's just a pedophile.

CRYSTAL: I mean, yeah, I guess. But 15 years, Luke. Maybe he's not a pedophile anymore. That goes away, right?

LUKE: I don't know if it goes away. That's the thing.

CRYSTAL: I keep turning over in my head. Like, he did his time, right?

LUKE: I don't think that's how it's supposed to work. I think once you've done your time for that, you're not allowed to coach anymore. So however he ended up being the coach is probably not okay.

CRYSTAL: That's what I keep coming back to. Because there's background checks, right? There have to be background checks for little league coaches. So either he lied or someone knew and didn't care. Or there's some loophole I don't understand. And that scar over his eyebrow that he always jokes about, saying he got it sliding into home plate when he was a kid. Did he get it with a beer bottle knife?

LUKE: No, no, he said it was a baseball bat.

CRYSTAL: But now I'm wondering if that's true. I mean, he's got this whole story about it, how he was showing off for his dad and slipped on the wet grass and, wait, why am I even telling you this? That's not the point.

LUKE: Well, have you talked to anybody at the school or the team about this, the police even. I don't know if this is the type of thing that you want to take to a radio host if he's in close proximity to all your children.

CRYSTAL: That's why I'm calling you, Luke, because I don't know what to do. If I go to the school, if I go to the league, I blow up my nephew's whole season. I blow up my sister's life because she's going to feel like the worst mother in the world for not knowing.

LUKE: Well, he might be blowing up more than your nephew's season.

CRYSTAL: Okay, so yeah, you got to do something.

LUKE: I know. I know that. But what if I'm wrong? What if there's an explanation?

CRYSTAL: Let you let the police figure that out. And they can do whatever types of investigation they have to do. But, I mean, you read the article. It's Coach Mike. I assume that's got a picture of him in it, and you've confirmed that it's the same Mike. And if you're sure, and he's the coach of Little League, you can't allow that to continue because it would make your sister feel bad if you said something. If he's continuing to do what he does to kids, he could be ruining lives, not seasons, lives, entire forever. And you can't let that happen.

CRYSTAL: You're right. God, you're right. I've been sitting here for three hours trying to talk myself out of it, trying to find a reason why it's okay to just keep my mouth shut.

LUKE: Well, there is no reason it's okay. It's not okay for you to keep your mouth shut. If you've got that information, then you have to take get to people that can look into it. And if you don't, then you're, I mean, a rotten person.

CRYSTAL: That's harsh, Luke. But yeah, yeah, I guess that's what I needed to hear. Because every time I pick up the phone to call someone official, I think about my nephew crying when they canceled the season two years ago for COVID. Or I think about Mike staying late after practice to work with the kids who are struggling.

LUKE: Yeah, I bet. He painted that cooler himself with all their names on it. Yeah, that's not creepy at all. Call the cops. Let him know. Jesus. Look at what's going on here. Uh, Mike's not your buddy.

CRYSTAL: No, you're right. He's not. I don't even know him. Not really. I just know what he shows us. And that article, it was from Colorado 15 years ago. Inappropriate contact with a minor.

LUKE: Well, every minute you spend on the line with me is another minute he could be doing some after-school tutelage with one of your children. So I would hang up and call the police immediately.

CRYSTAL: Okay. Okay, I'm going to do it. Right now, soon as I hang up. I'm going to call the non-emergency line and tell them what I found. And then I'm going to have to call my sister before she hears it from someone else. Because that's going to be a nightmare.

LUKE: Yeah, well, I mean, better to call her and find all that out now than to find out 20 years down the line that something was going on and you could have prevented it. So I hope all of that works out. Good luck to you. And I hope you continue to have a wonderful season. Jesus. And now it's time for some words from our sponsors. Are you tired of your protein having a shape? Introducing Meat Cube, the world's first geometrically perfect meat product. Every meat cube is exactly two inches by two inches by two inches of lab engineered protein that we are legally required to call meat adjacent. What animal is it from? Absolutely none of your business. What we can tell you is that Meat Cube has been approved by the FDA.

LUKE: Not the American one, but one of them. Meat Cube is a shelf stable for 11 years. It does not need to be refrigerated. Honestly, refrigeration seems to make it angry. Each cube contains 40 grams of protein, zero grams of fat, and a faint electrical charge that our lawyers say is within acceptable limits. Meat Cube comes in three feet. flavors. Original, smokehouse, and, uh-oh. You can grill it, fry it, or just set it on the counter and watch it slowly rotate on its own, which it will do. We don't know why. Meat Cube. It's not meat. It's not not meat. It's not meat. It's meat cube. Available at grocery stores that have recently fired their health inspector. Use code Chew Harder for free shipping. We are back. Thanks to meet you for the sponsorship there. Next up on the line, we've got Slim. Slim, welcome to the show. How can we help you tonight?

SLIM: Hey, Luke, thanks for having me. So I'm sitting here at this U-Haul place, right? Covering graveyard shift for my cousin. And a couple hours ago, these people came in wearing matching Taco Tuesday squad shirts. And I know that sounds like nothing, but it sent me down this whole thing about food appropriation. And I cannot let it go.

LUKE: let it go because food appropriation is not a thing, right? It doesn't matter. It's a taco. Somebody called in the other day all pissed off about Taco Tuesday, too. And you know what? You should be grateful that tacos are getting the attention they deserve. And it's not appropriation. People like tacos. Tacos are cheap and easy to produce. And they are a good seller for most pubs. So I don't see the problem here, but I'm not Mexican, so I guess I wouldn't, would I?

SLIM: Wait, wait, wait, hold on, Luke. You cannot just dismiss this like that. This is exactly what I'm talking about. It is not about being grateful that white people like tacos. It is about the fact that my grandmother sold tamales door to door in the 50s to keep her family fed and got called a dirty Mexican for it. And now some brewery in Scottsdale is charging $18 for gourmet street tacos and getting written up in Phoenix Magazine like they invented something.

LUKE: The problem is not that people like the food. Look, every culture's food is appropriated in this way. You're lucky that you're not the fucking French, because then you would have the Chris sandwich. How would you like that? The Chris sandwich? Uh, every, every single culture, there's fucking SpaghettiOs? Do you think the Italians like that there's SpaghettiOs that are made into alphabet letters so you can spell your name out on your fucking spoon? Enough. Enough. Enough with cultural food appropriation. You can't play the victim here when it happens to everybody across the board. There is no culture whose food is safe from marketing. Right? That's America. And go get yourself a whopper. You know, is that cultural appropriation? I think white people invented the hamburger. I don't fucking know. But Taco Tuesday is not a thing you have to be pissed off about. And I'm sorry that your grandmother was called the dirty Mexican that's not nice, but it doesn't have anything to do with tacos, Taco Tuesday, food appropriation, or restaurants.

SLIM: No, Luke, you are missing the entire point. It is not the same thing. When Italians get SpaghettiOs, nobody is calling their grandmother dirty for making pasta.

LUKE: No, the Italians were never called dirty? Have you ever heard of a greasy wop? A guinea? Of course they were. Every culture is made fun of and called me names and every single culture. We're talking about food, though, and every food is culturally appropriated and used by the marketing machine to sell more of them. Tacos just get it quite a bit because they're inexpensive to produce.

SLIM: Okay, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the erasure that happens. It's not just about marketing. It's about taking something it of its origins and its cultural significance, and then presenting it as something new and trendy, often by the very people who look down on it to begin with. It's not just every food gets marketed. It's about who gets to profit, who gets the credit, and whose history gets conveniently forgotten. Like, there's this whole thing about how Mexican food in the United States, especially here in the Southwest, was developed by Mexican Americans by Tejano's, specifically to adapt to ingredients available here. And that was always looked down on as peasant food. But now you have chefs, often white chefs, taking those exact same dishes, putting a new spin on them, and suddenly it's elevated cuisine.

LUKE: It's never elevated cuisine. No, it isn't. It's Taco Tuesday. There's nothing elevated about that. It's cheap tacos that you get at happy hour. Two for two dollars or one whatever. I know that there is some elevated cuisine bullshit going on all throughout the country in all ethnic foods and non-ethnic foods. And at what point can you say what, like nobody owns a food. That's a silly proposition. And it is marketing. It is entirely marketing. And they're not just selling the food. They're selling the experience. They're selling the restaurant and the very well-trained waiters and the fancy wines and shit. So, no, I don't, I don't buy this. I just don't.

SLIM: Luke, you're conflating two different things. The cheap taco Tuesday at the dive bar. Fine, whatever. But I'm talking about the boutique places. I'm talking about the James Beard nominated chefs who are doing modern interpretations of Mexican street food and getting all the accolades while the actual Mexican restaurants down the street that have been making the real thing for 30 years can't get a write-up in the local paper.

LUKE: They could absolutely get a write-up in the local paper if they wrote a press release and sent it to the local paper. And you called me talking about Taco Tuesday. Not talking about whatever boutique place bullshit you're babbling about now, James Beard,! Whoever the fuck that is. I don't care. This is stupid. It's a taco. There's not a whole lot to it. It's a tortilla shell with some shit in it. I don't know. What do you want? A cookie?

SLIM: No, I don't want a cookie Luke. I want you to understand that when a white couple walks into my workplace, wearing matching Taco Tuesday squad shirts like it's some kind of cute personality trait. It's emblematic of a bigger issue where my culture gets turned into a costume. And yeah, I started with Taco Tuesday, because that's what set me off tonight. But it's connected to the bigger picture. You're acting like I'm being precious about a tortilla, but what I'm actually about is a pattern where Mexican food was stigmatized when Mexican people made it. And now it's celebrated when white people rebrand it.

LUKE: I don't, I think what you're talking about is absolute bullshit. And I'm sorry if you feel like your culture has been appropriated by white people, but they're just trying to sell tacos. And you don't own tacos. They're not particularly special in any way. And I'm not going to, I'm not going to go where you want me to go on this one, because I Don't agree with you. This is a silly thing to be upset about. Yeah, people wear Taco Tuesday shirts because they like to go to the bar where they have Taco Tuesday because they can get two tacos for two dollars. It's not that big of a deal. It's not cultural appropriation. I agree that there is cultural appropriation all over in different ways, but food I don't think is one of them. And I think it's silly for people to get upset about it. Because what you're talking about, I've never seen a white person stigmatized Mexican food ever. In my entire, I'm 43 years old. I've never seen anybody badmouth Mexicans for making Mexican food. I've seen lots of people badmouthed Mexicans for other reasons. Some of them are funny, and they're all, you know, off color. But, uh, but not food. And that goes the same for every single other culture. Chinese people, African American people, Iranian people, Turkish people.

CALLER: Go to San Francisco. You can eat at fucking sushi Rito. Sushi Rito! Luke, just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. My grandmother literally experienced it. She got doors slammed in her face in the 50s and 60s selling tamales in Tucson. That happened. And you're right. You're 43. You didn't see that because it was before your time. But the legacy of that stigma is still there.

LUKE: It's still there because you're holding on to it that was 60 fucking years ago. And I'm sorry that happened to her. That's horrible. And people were and mean, but that's not what's going on with Taco Tuesday and people wearing their Taco Tuesday shirts. So you can be as pissed off and as butt-hurt as you want about cultural appropriation of your tacos, but I think it's bullshit and you need to get over it. That's what I think. And if you're looking for a different answer for me, you're not going to get it because I just don't see how Mexicans specifically have been called out in this way. This happens to every culture, all of them.

CALLER: You know what, Luke? You're right that it happens to every culture. But that doesn't make it okay, and it doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it. And yeah, maybe I am holding on to it. But when you grow up hearing those stories from your grandmother, when you watch her make food with her hands that people used to turn their noses up at, and then you see it repackaged and sold back to you as trendy, it sticks with you. You can call that being butthard if you want, but it matters to me. And the fact that you think it's silly doesn't change But it's real for a lot of people. I'm not asking you to fix it.

LUKE: Well, how do you think it even could be fixed? Do you want people to not eat tacos if they're not Mexican? Is that what you want? Do you want people to not have Taco Tuesday because your grandmother got made fun of 60 years ago for making tacos? Lots of things people turn their nose up at 60 years ago that they don't turn their nose up now. That's a little thing we call marketing. I mean, values and cultures change over time. And 60 years ago, this was a very very different country. I mean, we're going back to the way that that country was, and I don't think anybody's happy about that, except for the half of the country that is. But my point is, what would you like me to do about that? What would you like anybody to do about this? Because I think your argument here is it doesn't hold water. It's stupid. And you're pissed off for no reason. And I don't know what to tell you.

CALLER: I don't want people to stop eating tacos, Luke. That's not what I'm saying. What I want is for people to acknowledge where it comes from. I want the white chef who wins the James Beard Award for his innovative take on street tacos to maybe mention that he learned it from the Mexican women who've been making them in that neighborhood for decades. I want the food writers to cover the actual Mexican restaurants.

LUKE: With the same enthusiasm, they cover the boutique places. They don't want to go to the actual Mexican restaurants because they are largely dirty. Right there, small. They're crowded. They're a pain in the ass to get to. They're not going there. They're going to the nicer, cleaner, upscale places that are fancy. That's what they're writing about. That's what's making the money. They're not going to go to a Mexican street vendor and write an article about the old lady that's been making tacos for 60 years because it's not a story. And the James Beard Award chef was born 30 years ago. He didn't learn how to make tacos from the old Mexican ladies down the street. He learned to make tacos from fucking Taco Bell.

CALLER: Jokita Taco Bell. You just called Mexican restaurants largely dirty, Luke. You hear yourself right now. That's exactly the stigma I'm talking about.

LUKE: That's because the Mexican restaurants I've been to are largely dirty. There's flies flying around. They're not, uh, they're not pristine. It's not fucking Caesar's Palace. And that's part of the charm of them. But you can't say they're not dirty. They are. They're not air-conditioned in a lot of places, and they're not clean in a lot of places, and that's, I don't know if that's a cultural thing, or if that's a money thing, or whatever, but it's not the same experience as going into a Michelin-Star restaurant. That's why you're not getting the articles written. It's not because they're Mexican. It's because the place isn't that pleasant to go into.

CALLER: Luke, you're conflating authentic family-run places with dirty. There's a difference between a small operation that doesn't have marble countertops and a place that's actually unsanitary. And yeah, some of them are in strip malls or food trucks, but that doesn't mean they're dirty. The health department inspects them just like everywhere else. What you're describing as not pleasant is often just not designed for white customers. No tablecloths, no mood lighting. It's just good food. And the fact that you think that's inherently 30 says more about your expectations than it does about those restaurants.

LUKE: Except I'm not talking about the ones that are strip malls and food trucks. I'm talking about the ones in Mexico that don't have air conditioners or people wiping the tables. And that seems to be okay there. And I don't know what health department is inspecting them, but I'm pretty sure there's none.

CALLER: You're talking about Mexico like it's some monolith, Luke. There are Michelin-starred restaurants in Mexico City with health inspections just as strict as anywhere. And yeah, there are small family-run places that might not have air conditioning, but that doesn't mean that dirty. You're acting like every Mexican restaurant is some back alley operation, and that's the problem. You're judging an entire culture's food based on a handful of places you've been to. And let me ask you this. When was the last time you ate at a Mexican restaurant that wasn't a chain or some upscale place?

LUKE: I don't know, some years ago, many years ago. But I have. And it was dirty. And I'm not saying unsanitary. I'm saying dirty, like with dirt in places. And, you know, I still ate there. I didn't feel it like it was unsafe. And stop putting words in my mouth. I'm not doing that. I'm saying they're dirty because they're fucking dirty, dude. I've been there. I've seen it. And, you know, the Michelin Star restaurants in Mexico City you're talking about. They're getting the articles written about them. They're Michelin Star. That's part of it, you know. You're talking about about little mom and pop places and then like trying to pin me as some sort of racist douchebag and it's not the case. So get out of here with your Taco Tuesday cultural appropriation. It's bullshit. And I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna let you put me in this position where I'm being an asshole about it. I'm not. I'm telling you what I see.

CALLER: And you're telling me what you see. I'm not trying to pin you as anything, Luke. I'm telling you that when you should, you're say Mexican restaurants are largely dirty. That reinforces a stereotype that hurts real businesses. And those Michelin star places in Mexico City, they're not the ones getting written about in American food magazines. When some white chef opens a taco spot in Portland.

LUKE: No, of course they're not. Why would they be? And how many, uh, Mexico City publications of writing about the taco place in Portland? Come on, where is your fucking argument here? What you're saying is nonsense.

CALLER: is that when Mexican food gets elevated in the United States, it's almost always by non-Mexican chefs who get the credit and the awards, while the people who actually created and preserved those recipes stay invisible. You're acting like this is just about who writes about what restaurant, but it's bigger than that. It's about who gets to profit from a culture's food.

LUKE: Who gets taken seriously? And who gets dismissed? The Portland Taco Place gets venture capital funding, James Beard nominations, the family that's been making the same recipes for three generations gets gentrified out of their neighborhood.

CALLER: That's the pattern I'm talking about.

LUKE: Well, I think that pattern is nonsense and it doesn't fit in the American, you know, you can't claim ownership of a type of food. That is silly. You can go anywhere in the world and learn how to make a meal and then bring it back and make a restaurant. That doesn't mean you're culturally appropriating and profit off the backs of generations of people? No. It's just not true. You want to be hurt about something and you're picking this to be hurt about and I think it's nonsense. I think it's fucking stupid. And I'm not going to agree with you. Unless you got some kind of real point here that could change my mind, I don't think you're going to because I don't see it the way you see it at all.

CALLER: You're right that anyone can learn to cook any cuisine. I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to open Mexican restaurants. What I'm saying is there's a double standard in how those restaurants get treated. When Rick Baylis opens a place, he gets profiled in the New York Times. When My Tia opens a place with the same recipes her grandmother taught her, she gets health code violations for keeping her comel too close to the prep station.

LUKE: Yeah, because her comel is too close to the prep station, and she's not following the rules of the health board. She should get health violations for that. You can't just, that's what I'm saying. The Mexican restaurants that I've been to are largely dirty. And there's a reason that they're not getting the press that you want them to be getting. It's because it's not the same experience. And it's not something that people want to go spend a bunch of money on.

CALLER: You just proved my point, Luke. You're saying Mexican restaurants don't get press because they're dirty and not worth spending money on. That's the stereotype I'm talking about. My tea is really. restaurant isn't dirty.

LUKE: No, you just proved my point when you said, uh, your, I don't know what Tia is, that your Tia's restaurant got board of health violations for having the comel, whatever that is, too close to the prep station. That's what I'm saying. Like, you got to, you got to follow the rules. If it was the same experience as a venture capitalist funded restaurant with the marble tables and the nice mood lighting and the tablecloths and the, and the, the, the, air conditioning, then yeah, people might be more inclined to go spend a bunch of money there. But it's not that experience. It's hot. People are sweating. The food is too close to the other food. There's flies flying around. It's dirty and it's not. I mean, there's more to the experience of the restaurant than the food. The food is probably the least important part of the experience of a restaurant, especially when we're talking about what the press is looking at. And you're trying to say that we're appropriating your culture and trying to profit off your generations of talk. recipe, but it's a fucking taco dude. Stop it.

CALLER: Tia means Aunt Luke. And yeah, she got a violation because traditional Mexican cooking uses equipment that doesn't fit American health code standards. A Como is a flat gridal. It's been used for thousands of years to make tortillas.

LUKE: Okay. Well, if you don't fit the American health code standards, that's a problem for Americans, and you were talking about America. How is this cultural appropriation or a double standard? You have to follow the rules that every other restaurant has to follow.

CALLER: That's exactly it, Luke. You're saying, follow the rules, like the rules are neutral. But the rules themselves are often designed for a different kind of cuisine, a different kind of cooking. So when you apply those same rules to a traditional Mexican restaurant, it creates an unfair barrier. It's not that her food is unsafe. It's that the way it's prepare doesn't fit into a box that was built for, say, a French bistro. And so then it gets labeled as dirty or unprofessional when it's just different.

LUKE: No, it gets labeled as dirty and unprofessional when it looks dirty and unprofessional, which a lot of the Mexican restaurants that are authentic that I've been to look like. Uh, so, yeah, I don't know what else to tell you. I'm sorry your culture's been appropriated by Taco Tuesday and you don't get enough write-ups in whatever Neither one of us is reading the chef magazine, so you're just looking to be pissed off tonight. And I don't agree with you.

CALLER: I work nights at a U-Haul place, Luke. I'm not reading chef magazines either, but I notice when the white couple comes in, wearing matching Taco Tuesday squad shirts, like it's some kind of joke. Like my family's food is a theme party.

LUKE: No, you're just deciding to take it super personally and decide that they're looking at a like a joke when what they are really doing is wearing those shirts because they get joy out of tacos. So they're celebrating your culture's food. And I'm sorry it doesn't have your grandmother's fucking face on it, but they're just enjoying a taco. And you're taking it super, super personally for generations and generations of misappropriation. And that's wrong. I think it's wrong. And I think you don't have to be pissed off about this because it's... I can be wrong. I don't know. Like we both just said, neither one of us are reading these articles. So in the high end of things, I don't... I don't really know. Maybe you are appropriated and somebody's profiting off Mexican culture that isn't Mexican. I... I don't care.

CALLER: You're right that I'm taking it personally. I am. Because when my abuela makes tamales for Christmas, it takes her to... days.

LUKE: Well, good for her, and she's doing that as a labor of love for her and her family and for the tradition of your deep family culture. And that's a great thing. But I don't understand how that means the rest of the world is wronging you because they're not. Okay? Everybody's trying to make a book. Everybody's trying to get a bite to eat. And we don't have to give reverence to the people that came before us every time we ate a taco, a burrito or a sushi or a pasta primavera or a fucking baguette.

CALLER: You don't have to give reverence, Luke. But when Rick Bayliss gets a James Beard award and opens five restaurants serving the exact same food my Tia makes, and she can't even get alone to fix her air conditioning, because the bank says her business model is too risky. That's not about reverence. That's about who gets to profit from the food. And who doesn't? He learned to cook in Mexico, came back to Chicago, and now he's the face of Mexican cuisine to millions of people who will never set foot in a restaurant like my tears. And I'm not saying he's a bad guy or that he shouldn't cook Mexican food. I'm saying the system decides his version is worth investing in, and hers isn't. And that's the double standard I'm talking about.

LUKE: Well, you're wrong about that because the system, I mean, the system isn't deciding that his investing in and hers isn't. It's deciding that he is worth investing in and she isn't because he's got credit, because he's able to pay those loans back, because he has a long history of being able to support the money that he's borrowing and make his investors money. And she likely does not. So that has nothing to do with the cuisine. And like we've already determined, this is, when we're talking about what food critics are looking at, the food is a very small part of Right? They're looking at the tablecloths. They're looking at how the fucking silverware is laid out on the tablecloths. They're looking at the decor around the building and the building itself, the real estate. This is all creditworthiness. It's not about the food. It's not about stealing your food.

CALLER: Okay, but Luke, you just made my point.

LUKE: You're saying it's about creditworthiness, about tablecloths and silverware and real estate. But that's exactly what I'm saying the food is the same. The recipes are the same. Sometimes his are literally learned from women like my Tia.

CALLER: Okay. And if women like your Tia had a creditworthiness, then they could borrow a bunch of money that they would have to pay back from investors and start a big fancy restaurant with a big fancy building and hire a bunch of people and the best waiters and then they could get those Michelin Stars too. Right? But they're not doing that. She doesn't have the money. She doesn't have the credit. She doesn't have an air conditioner that works.

LUKE: You're right that she doesn't have those things. But you're acting like creditworthiness exists in a vacuum. Like it's some neutral measure of who deserves investment. My tier has been running her restaurant for 22 years. She pays her bills. She employs six people.

CALLER: And that's great and that's good for her. But yes, creditworthiness is absolutely a neutral measure of who deserves investment. It is the primary measure of that. And if she were running her restaurant in America and paying the bills and keeping it in a perfect 800 credit score, and she would be much more likely to get the level of investment that she would need to start a restaurant like that. But she can't because she's busy doing her actual job, which is making tacos. So these guys got the money and they're investing it to make a big restaurant to get a bunch of critics to come out, so they'll pay a lot of extra money so that Taco cost $26.

LUKE: Your Tia could do that too if she moved to America and worked up her credit and found some investors and did the same thing that he's doing. But as soon as something goes wrong for that guy, he's on the hook to pay all those investors back. So if she can support doing that, she has every... Well, I don't know that she has every affordability to do that, but she could do that.

CALLER: Luke, she is in America. She's in Tucson. She's been a citizen for 30 years. And she does have good credit. She pays her suppliers on time. She's never missed a rent payment. She owns her house outright. But when she applied for a business loan three years ago to expand her kitchen and fix the hayback, the bank said no, because her neighborhood is considered high risk. And her business model doesn't fit their lending criteria.

LUKE: Yeah, and that other dude probably went to 50 banks that also told him no for the same reasons. And he had to pick his place where the bank thought, all right, there's enough people with enough money in here to actually recoup our investment. And then he had to go to more investors so we could get more money so we could pay for the more expensive place so that the bank would actually give him more money so that he could make his restaurant. There's a whole thing going on here, but it doesn't have anything to do with stealing your culture's food.

CALLER: Then why is it that when white chefs open Mexican restaurants in upscale neighborhoods, innovative and authentic. But when Mexican families have been running the same kind of place for decades in their own neighborhoods, it's considered risky. Rick Bayliss didn't go to 50 banks. He had access to capital and connections from the start because of who he is and where he came from.

LUKE: Maybe so. I don't know who Rick Bayliss is, but he very well could have had lots of connections from the start. And that would mean that he was more likely to pay back his loans. And the bank felt more comfortable giving him loans. And like you said, they're opening Mexican restaurants in upscale neighborhoods where the people have, you know, more money, more spending money to buy tacos. It makes more, it makes sense that the bank would consider them less of a risk than a neighborhood that was less upscale.

CALLER: Of course. But Luke, that's the cycle I'm talking about. The upscale neighborhoods are upscale because banks invested in them. The neighborhoods where Mitea and families like hers live are considered risky because banks didn't invest in them. Redlining was legal until 1968, and the effects of that are still here. My Tia's neighborhood in South Tucson was literally redlined. Banks wouldn't give mortgages there, wouldn't give business loans there, and now 50 years later they're still using that same logic. Just calling it risk assessment instead of redlining.

LUKE: Yeah. Well, I won't disagree with you there. And the banks are reprehensible. And they always have been. And they always will be. And there's definitely undertones of racism there. And there have been. But that's not the point of this conversation. Okay, the point of this conversation is you're pissed off that people are wearing Taco Tuesday shirts. And somehow that's cultural appropriation. And now we got in this huge fight about, about redlining and, uh, I don't even know how we got here. But I live in animus, New Mexico. Okay? It's population 200. And if I went to the bank tomorrow and said, I would like to start a Mexican restaurant here, they would tell me to go fuck myself. Because there's nobody here. There's nobody here. There's nobody here with enough money to pay me $40 for a plate of tacos. And it wouldn't happen. It would be a bad investment on paper, I mean, and that's not, it has nothing to do with race or culture or anything. It's money. It's all coming down to, can I get my money back? And if I were to do that, it would be a bad business decision. And the bank knows that. And they're not going to invest in something if they don't think they're going to get their money back from it.

CALLER: Look, I hear you about the money, but let me ask you this. If you opened a Mexican restaurant in Animus New Mexico and in failed because there wasn't enough demand. Would you blame the people who live there for not having enough money to support it? Or would you admit that the system set it up to fail from the start? Because that's what's happening here. My Tears restaurant in South Tucson does have demand. It's been packed every weekend for 20 years. But the bank still won't invest in her because of where she is, not because of her business. Meanwhile, some white chef opens a place in a wealthy neighborhood gets all the press and suddenly it's authentic Mexican cuisine when it's the same damn recipes my tea has been making for decades.

LUKE: Okay, and how much money does your tea charge for a plate of tacos?

CALLER: $12. Three tacos, rice, beans, homemade salsa. She could charge more, but she knows her customers. A lot of them are construction workers, families from the neighborhood. She's not trying to get rich. She's trying to keep her doors open and pay her people.

LUKE: Okay, so she needs a business loan from the bank for $3 million. How many taco plates at $12 does she have to sell to pay the bank back?

CALLER: Luke, that's not a fair comparison, and you know it. She's not asking for $3 million. She wanted $75,000 to upgrade her kitchen equipment and fix the air conditioning so she could pass health inspections without constantly patching things together.

LUKE: It is a fair comparison, though, because you're talking about these upscale restaurants that are worth, that are, the loans that this guy is taken out are not $75,000. This guy's trying to make an upscale restaurant so he can charge $75 for a plate of tacos and the bank's going to get their money back. That's why they're giving it to him and not to her. Because if she charged $14 for a plate of tacos, you wouldn't have that line there anymore. Because the people there largely, not all of them, but largely, can't not afford that. So it's a bad business decision.

CALLER: Okay, but Luke, you're missing the point. She doesn't want to be Rick Bayless. She doesn't want to charge $75 for tacos. She wants to keep serving her community at prices they can afford and still have a functioning kitchen that doesn't break down every other month. The bank won't give her $75,000 for that.

SLIM: But they'll give some culinary school graduate with connections half a million to open a place that serves the exact sane food to people who can afford to treat it like a novelty.

LUKE: Yes, exactly. Yeah, they will. Because he's selling it for $75 a plate. He's making enough money to pay them back. And she's trying to do business as usual. Obviously, that's not working because it's not making her enough money to fix her fucking air conditioner. It has nothing to do with the food. Nothing. So stop trying to say that people are stealing your food and profanen it. That's not what's not what's happening here. It's not even what any of this discussion has been about. We're talking about real estate. We're talking about lending and interest. It has nothing to do with the food.

SLIM: Actually, Luke, it has everything to do with the food.

LUKE: Oh, my God, that's enough of you. Jesus Christ, Slim. Stop it. Stop it. I'm sorry that your Tia doesn't make a lot of money on her taco plates. It's never going to stop people from enjoying $2,000 at Applebee's on a Friday night. And you shouldn't be so pissed off about it. And I'm sorry that the bank treats your neighborhood with disrespect. It doesn't have enough money to support the investment. And whether that's right or wrong, I can't speak to that. I don't know what in what fucking neighborhood you're talking about. But I know they do some shady shit. And I'm not sticking up for the bank in that at all. Now I'm mad. And I want tacos. Okay. Next up we've got Lakeisha. Lakeisha, welcome to the show. Do you have something a little milder than that? I'm I got to ramp down.

LAKEISHA: Hey, Luke. Yeah, I appreciate you taking my call. Look, I just showed a house to a couple from California who spent the entire walkthrough on a video call with their remote work consultant, treating a four-generation cattle ranch, like it was just some backdrop for their Zoom meetings. And I cannot see. Stop thinking about it.

LUKE: Well, that sounds like a good thing for you, right? You're trying to sell the ranch. If you're trying to sell the ranch and they think it's nice enough to use as a backdrop, then they're probably likely to want to buy that ranch.

LAKEISHA: Yeah, I mean, you would think so. But here is the thing. They are not seeing it as a place. They are looking at square footage and internet speed like it is a hotel room with a good view. This property has a barn that is older than my grandmother. There is a hand and carved fence post with initials from 1947. And these people are walking past all of it, asking if the router can handle two simultaneous video conferences.

LUKE: Yeah, why do you care? You're trying to sell the ranch. If they can buy the ranch and then let them buy the ranch and it sounds like a nice day for you. If you're, you have some emotional connection to this particular ranch, then buy it yourself. Or, you know, take it off the market.

LAKEISHA: I cannot afford it, Luke. real estate for 23 years and I cannot afford half the properties I show. That is not the point. The point is I watched the family who built that place. Lose it to foreclosure after the drought killed Bear Herd three years running. And now I am handing the keys to people who see it as a tax write-off with rustic charm.

LUKE: All right, that sounds like a sale to me. Congratulations.

LAKEISHA: You are not hearing me. I am the one who had to sit across from Bill Henderson when he signed those years old, fourth generation on that land. And his hands were shaking so bad I had to help him hold the pen. And tonight I am showing his life's work to people who do not even know his name. Who are going to gut the place and turn it into some kind of remote work retreat, with Edison bulbs and reclaimed wood that was already there to begin with?

LUKE: No, I'm hearing you. I do not care. You're selling real estate. It is real estate. It was foreclosed on because it wasn't paid for. For whatever reason and now it's up on the market. And somebody's come in that wants to buy the place, and it's your obligation to sell it to them.

LAKEISHA: You are right. You are absolutely right. That is my job.

LUKE: And if you're going to get emotionally tied up in these properties and the stories behind them, then maybe it's the wrong job for you.

LAKEISHA: Maybe it is. But I have been doing this since before my husband died, and I have never felt like this before. I have sold dozens of foreclosures, Luke.

LUKE: Foreclosures are largely very sad, especially when it's a generational property like that, but they happen. And that's your business. So you can't hold on to the property and sell it to only somebody that's going to see the same story in it that you see because they're coming from a different place. They have different lives. It doesn't mean they're not going to respect the property just because they're working there and changing the light bulbs. They might love it just as much as you do. But in a different way, and for different reasons.

LAKEISHA: I know that. I do. But these people, this couple, they were on a Zoom call the entire time. The wife was in California. The husband was in New York. And they were both on the call with their remote work consultant. While I was showing them the property. They kept asking if the barn had good acoustics for podcasting. They did not even step outside to look at the sunset over the valley. They did not even see it.

LUKE: Well, that's none of your business. It doesn't matter what they saw in the property, but if they saw something that they wanted in the property, they're going to buy it. And that's great for everybody. Because the alternative is they don't buy it and it's still foreclosed and then it sits there and rots until it falls down. So they're going to put the care and love into it and pay the bill probably because they're doing the work that the cattle drought isn't going to take away. And they might be there for four generations. And a hundred years from now, somebody might have the same problem if it gets foreclosed. But you can't be this invested into a property if you're a real estate salesperson. That's just not good business.

LAKEISHA: You are missing what I am trying to say. This is not about one property. Three months ago, I almost called this show about something else entirely. I saw lights over the Players Valley. Hovering lights.

LUKE: I hear exactly what you're saying. I'm not missing what you're trying to say. I'm not missing what you're trying to say, say, oh, what you're trying to do is whine about these people that you don't like coming in with their newfangled podcasts and moving into a ranch that holds some meaning to you. And it's your job to sell it to them. So what were the lights over the Plyas Valley?

LAKEISHA: They were not airplane lights. I have lived here my whole life. I know what planes look like, what drones look like. These were different. They moved in ways that did not make sense.

LUKE: All right. So you saw what aliens? Did they take any cows or any horses or do you have any evidence? You take any pictures? You know that there's a lot of military activity in Plias. It's a military town that they do tests over. That's what I would expect in Plias.

LAKEISHA: I know about the military. That is what I told myself at first. But I have been watching the sky here for 53 years. And I have never seen ever anything move like that. And no, I did not take pictures because by the time I thought to reach for my phone, they were gone.

LUKE: Well, then, you know, that's exactly what I would expect to happen over a military compound. Is strange-looking planes and aerial phenomenon? It seems like quite a coincidence that you just happen to see these lights over a military town where they do military testing.

LAKEISHA: I am not saying it was aliens, Luke. I am saying I am saying I'm I saw something I could not explain, and it made me feel the same way I felt tonight watching those people walk through that ranch. Like something is changing, and I do not understand what it is, or how to make sense of it. Like the ground is shifting under my feet.

LAKEISHA: And I am the only one who notices. You're not the only one that notices. Everything is changing because things always change and technology is changing and people's values are changing and the world is changing. It's good or bad, that's a matter of personal opinion. But you're not alone in seeing the change.

LUKE: Maybe you are in the wrong position being so resistant to the change because it's going to happen whether you approve of it or not.

LAKEISHA: I am not resistant to change. I have been selling real estate for 23 years. I have seen this town go through droughts. Through the mine closing, through the hospital shutting down. I watched my husband die. And I kept working.

LUKE: All right. I get it. So what is the... Why are you calling me? What do you want?

LAKEISHA: I want to know if I am losing my mind. Because I cannot shake this feeling that something is wrong. Not just different, wrong.

LUKE: Well, I don't think you're losing your mind, but you're not wrong that something is changing. I wouldn't say that it's right or wrong. And none of us have the completely to make that judgment. But it is changing and you don't like it, obviously. And I think you're going to be unhappy if you don't change your attitude about that and get on board with the changing tides because they're coming.

LAKEISHA: It is not about liking it or not liking it. It is about what it means. These people, they look at a ranch that has been in a family for four generations, a place where people lived and worked and died. And they see a remote work consultant opportunity. They are not buying a home, Luke. They are buying a concept. And they are doing it with money that feels like it came out of thin air.

LUKE: A home is a concept. Okay? No matter when you bought it, you can put some other meaning to it if you like. It doesn't matter how many generations of people lived there before. It's a building on some land in a dust bowl, in a town that it's dead. You said it yourself, the mine is closed, the There's nothing left here. So if they want to come in and breathe some life into it with a remote work, retreat, great. This area needs a lot more of that to keep it alive so that it can support the other people that still live here on those ranches. Because their tax money isn't doing it. And who's going to fix the roads? And what if we need a hospital someday? Where's that going to come from? It's not going to come from anybody that's here today. We're going to need that money to come out of thin air. So good. Get them there at a sense and bulbs and be thankful that you made your commission.

LAKEISHA: You do not understand. The commission is not the point. I have been doing this long enough that I do not need the money that bad. What I am trying to tell you is that these people are not coming here to be part of anything. They are coming here because land is cheap and they can work from anywhere. And when the internet goes out or the well runs dry or the dust storms get bad, they will just leave. They will sell it to the next person with laptop money and move on.

LUKE: Good. Great. I don't see what the problem with that is. That's ideal. If people are coming here and paying taxes and not using the services, that's the best case scenario. So I don't know why you have these emotional ties to the land or whatever, but I live here. And I know that this place is a dust bowl shithole shithole. And it needs exactly that. There's nothing for them to be part of. So hopefully they can come and build something and other people will be part of that. And it can continue to support this area and this community because it's dying and everybody's leaving. And before you know it, there won't be any buildings left because they'll all blow down to the wind from lack of maintenance.

LAKEISHA: You are right that this place is dying. But you are wrong about what kills it. It is not the lack of money. It is the lack of people who give a damn. My husband and I, we bought our house in 1994. We knew every person on our street.

LUKE: No, I am not wrong. I'm absolutely right. It is the lack of money, because if there was no lack of money, there would not be a lack of people. There's no people here because there's no money here for them to make. If they could support themselves and find jobs and there was enough money to have things like hospitals, then the place would be thrive. But that's not the case. Everybody's left and most people that are still here are going to die soon. So unless we bring in some of that new blood and some of that new money, this place is not going to exist in 20 years.

LAKEISHA: Then tell me why three months ago I saw lights over the Plias Valley that I cannot explain. Tell me why they hovered there for 20 minutes, silent, not moving like any aircraft I have ever seen. Tell me why when I mentioned it at the four other people had seen the same thing and nobody wanted to talk about it.

LUKE: Because the Plias Valley is a military testing ground. That is why. Because extraterrestrial life, it would be very coincidental if they just happen to come down to Earth and do their little thing right over the military testing ground. There's a lot of other places that I think that the aliens would rather go. So I'm not super, super into the idea that you saw something extraterrestrial over the Plyas Valley. I doubt that very, very much. I know what the Plyas Valley is used for. I have lived here. Okay, enough of you too. And that is the end of our show, folks. I did my best. But Jesus, these people, wow, it is hard to give good advice to people that just don't want to hear the good advice. I'll do my best, though. We'll try again tomorrow, and we'll see how we do. Hopefully, better than tonight. I wish everybody a wonderful Monday and a great start to the week, and I'll talk to you again tomorrow.