LUKE: All right. Welcome back. I'm Luke. This is Luke at the Roost. It's the late night call-in radio show where you can call in and tell me about whatever's going on in your life. Ask me about what's on your mind. I'll give you the very best advice that I can. Today's Friday, March 13th. Somebody told me today, it's the anniversary of the lockdown from COVID-19. So happy COVID-19 lockdown day. I hope you're enjoying yours. It seems like this town never sleeps because it's 308 a.m. And our phone lines are lit up like never before. So we're going to get right to that. First up, we've got Lucille. Lucille, welcome to the show. What's going on in your life tonight? What do you want to talk about?

LUCILLE: I moved my mom's will. Like, physically moved it. She's leaving everything to her church. And I just stuck it behind the Christmas napkins, going to find it. I know how that sounds. I'm not proud of it. But I've got two kids, a mortgage, and my mom promised me her tools my whole life.

LUKE: She promised you our tools. Out of all of her stuff, her tools is what you're looking for? Do you think the church cares about the tools? What tools are we talking about?

LUCILLE: Handplanes from the 1800s. Anvils. My dad collected them.

LUKE: Okay, so what makes you think that your mom only has one copy of this will? I assume that she's got legal representation. I'm sure her lawyer's office has another copy of it.

LUCILLE: Oh, I know they do. I'm not stupid. But if they can't find the original, it slows everything down, right? Probate gets messy.

LUKE: I don't know. I wouldn't bet on that. I think a better approach would be to talk to your mom and ask what's going on. Tell her you want the anvils, the planes? really even know what those are. Those are the things that you use to make a board smooth?

LUCILLE: Yeah, hand planes smooth wood. My dad taught me how to use them when I was like eight. And I've tried talking to her. She just says, the church has been there for her. They helped her through her grief. And she wants to give back. She's been going there six months, Luke, six months.

LUKE: And are the hand planes explicitly defined in the will? Because that doesn't seem like the type of thing that would be.

LUCILLE: No, the will just says all personal property and the house go to the church, everything. The pastor drives Alexis, by the way.

LUKE: Yeah, well, I mean, you don't have to hide the will. You can just show up before the pastor does. Sounds like you could probably handle that, right? I think hiding the will is going to get you in more trouble than it's worth. That's a dushy thing to do, and if you want the handplains, just go there and take them.

LUCILLE: You're saying just take them while she's still alive. Just walk in and load up the truck?

LUKE: No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying wait until she dies or kill her, one of the two. And then you can be the death people and go in there and, you know, clean up everything before the pastor shows up.

LUCILLE: Jesus, Luke, I'm not killing my mother. But yeah, I mean, I could get there first. I've got a key to the house.

LUKE: Problem solved. That's the answer. Put the will back where it was. She wants her other stuff. If that's all you care about, just go take that. The pastor's not going to know or care.

LUCILLE: You're right. You're completely right. The pastor doesn't even know what's in that garage. He's never been to the house. I'm sitting here at three in the morning at the bail bond's office, making myself into a criminal over something I could just handle like a normal person.

LUKE: Yeah, don't do that. I'm glad we could talk some sense. a wonderful night.

LUCILLE: Thanks, Luke. I appreciate it.

LUKE: Anytime. Happy to help. Yeah, no hiding of the will before the person's dead. Everybody knows you make a mad rush for it the second that happens and finders keepers. Next up, we've got Joey. Joey, welcome to the show. What can I give you advice on today in your life?

JOEY: Appreciate you taking the call. So I'm calling because I've been watching this roadrunner outside the depot, right? And the other day I watched it kill a rattlesnake. Just grabbed it, whipped it around, smashed its head on a rock.

LUKE: Wow, that's a pretty badass roadrunner. Meep, meep. Good for him.

JOEY: Right, but here's the thing. It made me think about this mantis shrimp article I read. These things can see 16 color receptors. We only have three.

LUKE: Okay, so how did a roadrunner? A roadrunner smashing a rattlesnake's head into a rock make you think about a mantis shrimp being able to see 16 colors.

JOEY: Because we're all walking around half blind, Lou. That roadrunner sees the world completely different than I do. The mantis shrimp sees colors we can't even imagine. And I'm standing there in the parking lot at three in the morning thinking, what if my neighbor Gary is just operating on a completely different reality than me?

LUKE: He probably is. We all probably are. Who's to say what reality is? what one person's reality looks like through another person's 16 color receptor eyes. I don't know. We'll never know.

JOEY: Exactly. But here's why I'm calling. Gary keeps insisting my dog Buster is aggressive, says he growls at him, acts territorial, but Buster never does that with anyone else.

LUKE: Buster. No, that can't be. I don't believe that. He's a good boy. And your neighbor Gary's probably just a pussy.

JOEY: That's what I'm saying. And here's the thing. Six months before my divorce, Buster started acting weird around my ex-wife. Wouldn't sit near her. Kept his distance.

LUKE: What do you think Buster would do to that rattlesnake?

JOEY: Oh, Buster would lose that fight, no question. He's a beagle mix. Not exactly Apex predator material. But that's my point. Buster knew something about my ex that I didn't see until way later. Animals are operating on a different level of perception than we are.

LUKE: Of course they are. So our plants? so are rocks. So are stars. Everything's operating on a different level of perception than we are. But what makes you think that Buster saw something ugly in your ex and not in you?

JOEY: What do you mean? Buster loves me. He's my dog.

LUKE: Well, yeah, but he was her dog, too.

JOEY: No, he was mine before we got married. I got him as a puppy.

LUKE: But hold on. You're saying Buster was reacting to me, not her.

JOEY: No, I'm just talking about perspective. and people's different realities right now.

LUKE: So you called in talking about how everybody experiences a different reality. And from your perspective, your ex-wife was bad. But from her perspective, I mean, you very well may have been bad.

JOEY: Okay, but she's the one who cheated Luke. That's not a perspective thing. That's a fact. She was sleeping with a guy from her CrossFit gym for four months before I found out.

LUKE: Well, that's not a very nice thing to do. But why was she cheating with the CrossFit Gym guy? Like, what had led up to that?

JOEY: I was working a lot, pulling doubles at UPS during peak season. But that doesn't justify it.

LUKE: No, I'm not saying it justifies it, but you can understand from her perspective why she needed to get some, right? She wasn't getting it from you?

JOEY: I mean, we were still having sex, just not as much, maybe once every couple weeks during the busy season. But I was exhausted, Luke. I was doing 70-hour weeks.

LUKE: Yeah, that's not good. And it's understandable that women would get lonely if you're not around for 70 hours at a time. And cheating is never okay. There's never really a good excuse for it. That's not really what I'm saying. I'm just saying you're thinking that your dog knew that she was bad or evil or that there was something malicious about her. And if you look at it from her perspective, that's just, I mean, that might not really be the case.

JOEY: But Buster started acting weird before the cheating even started. At least I think he did. The timeline, wait, actually, I don't know exactly when it started. She said four months, but who knows if that's true?

LUKE: Yeah, you can't know. So Buster now is causing problems with your neighbor, so you think your neighbor is cheating on you?

JOEY: What? No, Gary's not. Luke, Gary's my neighbor.

JOEY: I'm not married to Gary. I'm saying Gary can't perceive what Buster actually is, because he's operating on a lot. a different reality. Same way I couldn't see what my ex was doing because I was blind to it.

LUKE: You weren't blind to her. You weren't home. You were working 70 hours a week. And your ex was, you know, doing what she needed to do to take care of herself, I guess. So not the right way. We're not standing up for your ex in this. We're just saying that maybe she's not evil. That's all.

JOEY: All right, fair enough. She's not evil. But Gary still sucks. And Buster's not aggressive. That's what I'm trying to get at here.

LUKE: Okay. Fair. Enough, I can agree with you on those points. She's not evil. Gary sucks, and Buster's not aggressive.

JOEY: Exactly. And that's why the mantis shrimp thing matters, because Gary thinks Buster's aggressive when he's just being protective of me. Gary can't see the actual situation. Just like I couldn't see what was happening with my ex until it was too late. We're all walking around half blind to what's really going on.

LUKE: Well, Buster can be both things, and we need to know what the truth is here. protected of you and in doing so, be aggressive towards other people. Is that what's happening? And you're not paying attention to that? Or is Gary just a pussy that's afraid of dogs?

JOEY: Gary called animal control because Buster barked at him through the fence. That's it. Buster didn't jump the fence. Didn't bite anyone. Just barked. And now Gary's threatening to sue me if Buster gets out again, which he did once because the gate latch broke.

LUKE: And what happened when Buster get out? What trouble did he cause? Did he go after Gary? I don't think that animal control cares if your dog's barking in your own yard at your fence. And if the dog got out, I mean, he could call animal control and have them pick him up and, like, call you. But I don't think he can sue you for that. I mean, you could try, but I don't think it would go very far.

JOEY: Buster ran straight to Gary's yard and knocked over his grill. Gary says Buster was trying to attack him, but Gary was standing right next to the grill. So obviously Buster ran into it. And then Gary pepper sprayed him, Luke. Pepper sprayed him. my dog for knocking over a grill.

LUKE: Yeah, no, that's not all right. I mean, I would lose my mind if somebody pepper sprayed my dog. So you're being surprisingly calm about this whole situation.

JOEY: I'm not calm about it. I went over there and we got into it. I didn't hit him or anything, but I told him if he ever touches my dog again, we're going to have a real problem. And that's when he said he's getting a lawyer.

LUKE: Do you have a lawyer?

JOEY: No, I don't have a lawyer. I deliver packages for a dog again. a living, Luke. I can't afford a lawyer over a knocked over grill.

LUKE: Yeah, but you don't get a buddy or a brother-in-law. Well, I guess you don't have a brother-in-law, but you don't know somebody that's a lawyer that would step in, or at least that you could use to threaten to have him step in if this were to escalate any.

JOEY: My cousin Derek's a paralegal, but he does real estate stuff. I don't think that counts. And honestly, I don't even know if Gary's serious about the lawyer thing or if he's just trying to scare me.

LUKE: He's trying to scare. I mean, no. Nobody's going to call a lawyer unless they really, really have to. Lawyers are expensive. Nobody wants to do that. But the bigger problem here is you and your neighbor can't get along because of your dog. And the only way to solve that is to talk to Gary and get him to spend some time with your dog. Get them acquainted, so he's not so fearful. And you were right to let him know that if he ever touches your dog again, you're going to break his fucking jaw for him. But outside that, If you want to continue living a peaceful life in your neighborhood, you're going to have to do something to ease this situation over, right? You should be friends.

JOEY: I tried that already. Before all this happened, I invited Gary over for a barbecue last summer. He came over for like 20 minutes. Wouldn't even Pet Buster kept asking me to put him inside. And then he left early saying he had to help his girlfriend move furniture or something.

LUKE: And did you put Buster inside?

JOEY: Yeah, I put him inside. But that's the whole point, Luke. Gary didn't even give him a chance. Buster was just sitting there wagging his tail, and Gary acted like he was a wolf or something.

LUKE: Yeah, I understand that. He's scared of dogs. He doesn't like Buster. That's obvious. But what I'm saying is you need to have a conversation with Gary and say, hey, man, I mean, I live here too, and so does my dog, and I love my dog. And I would really appreciate it if you'd make some level of effort to. to at least look at him, you know, at least spend a little bit of time with him and consider that he might not be trying to kill you. Unless he is, unless you're deluded and he actually is aggressive, and he's knocking over the grill and threatening to Gary, then maybe you're in the wrong.

JOEY: He's not aggressive. Gary's girlfriend isn't scared of Buster at all. She comes over sometimes when Gary's at work, and she throws the ball for him in my mind. yard. She thinks Gary's being ridiculous about the whole thing.

LUKE: Yeah, well, I think you should talk to Gary. And you know what? Maybe tell him that you need his help because you're working on training him to be better around people. Even if he's only an asshole around Gary, you can use this as an opportunity to get Gary and Buster to become acquainted.

JOEY: That might work. I mean, I don't want to lie and say Buster needs training when he doesn't. But if it gets Gary to actually interact with him instead of freaking out every time he sees him, maybe it's worth it. And honestly, his girlfriend already thinks I'm reasonable about this whole thing. So maybe should back me up.

LUKE: Well, all dogs need training. They don't look at it as training. They look at it as intention and love, right? You're spending time with them and giving them something to do, something to focus on a job. And I think that that's important for dogs and that they don't see it as As, oh, I'm bad and I need training, they see it as, oh, good, I get to do something fun with my human.

JOEY: You're right, and Buster does love learning new stuff. I taught him to bring me a beer from the fridge last year, and he does it every time now. Maybe I could use that to show Gary he's actually smart and not just some wild animal.

LUKE: Yeah, there you go, and you can teach him to be calm and respectful when Gary's around, maybe more so than other people, because Gary doesn't like him, and Gary's afraid of him, and who knows, maybe Gary got bit by a bit by a lot. dog that looks like Buster when he was a kid or something. You can't be sure. You called in talking! Rattlesnakes bashing or a Roadrunner bashing in a snake's head because it perceives the world differently. Well, Gary perceives the world differently than you or I do.

JOEY: That's exactly what I'm saying, though, Luke. Gary's operating on a completely different frequency. He can't see what's actually there. He sees Buster and his brain tells him danger. When what's actually there is just a dog who wants to play.

LUKE: Yeah, well, when a dog has a dog has a energy and starts jumping around and playing that looks aggressive to people that aren't used to having dogs. So, and it's, it's embarrassing and we don't want that to happen. So the responsible and respectful thing for you to do would be to train Buster to not behave in a, in that playful way when Gary is around.

JOEY: All right, yeah, I can do that. I'll work on getting him to just sit and stay calm when Gary's around. And maybe I'll talk about. And maybe I'll talk about. talk to Gary's girlfriend first, see if she can help smooth things over before I go directly to him. Because honestly, after the pepper spray thing and me getting in his face, I don't know if he's even going to open the door for me right now.

JOEY: Yeah, you're right. I need to be the bigger person here. I'll give it a few days and then go over there and apologize for getting in his face. And I'll tell him I'm working on training Buster to be calmer around him. Maybe bring him some beer or something as a peace offering.

LUKE: There you go. And all you can do is try, so give it a try. And if it doesn't work out and he ever touches your dog again, break his fucking jaw.

JOEY: Ha. All right, Luke. Appreciate it, man. I'll let you know how it goes.

LUKE: All right. Thanks, man. You have a good night and give Buster a little pet on the head for me, all right? And now it's time for some words from our sponsor. This episode is sponsored by Shoe Spray Co. It's the spray you use in rental bowling shoes, because bowling is a game, but these shoes are gross. Let's be honest. Those shoes aren't dirty. They're used. They've had shifts. They've been through birthdays, work parties, and at least one guy who insists he's actually really good at this. Shoes Spray Co. doesn't promise fresh linen or spring rain. Nobody believes that. No one wants to be lied to while lacing up rental shoes. Shoospray Co just handles the situation. It makes them tolerable enough that you can focus on the important part. you're not competitive and then getting mad anyway. Use code strike at shoe spray co for 15% off. Shoes Spray Co. Reality-based footwear management. Okay. Welcome back. And yeah, the lines are still really lit up. I don't know what everybody's doing out here in New Mexico at 3.30 in the morning. Well, I do know. They're calling me at Luke at the Roost. like to give us a call. The number is 208-5853. That's 208-439. Luke. Next up, we've got Maxine. Maxine. Welcome to the show. You're up late tonight. What's going on over there?

MAXINE: Hey, yeah. Sorry, I'm, yeah, I'm up. I bought this house about a year and a half ago. And I've been doing some work on it. Just little things, you know. And tonight, I was measuring because I wanted to put up some shelves in the bedroom and the numbers weren't right. The tape measure kept coming up short between my bedroom wall and the bathroom. And I thought maybe I was just tired, but I got this laser level from work and did it proper and there's like six feet missing. Just gone. The rooms don't line up.

LUKE: I don't understand what you're saying the rooms don't line up. You're trying to put up a shelf? You're measuring the wall. What rooms don't line up?

MAXINE: No. I mean, Okay, so my bedroom is on one side, right, and the bathroom is on the other side. And when you measure the bedroom wall, it's one length, and then you go into the bathroom and measure that wall, and it's another length. And when you add them up with the hallway in between, it doesn't match the outside of the house. There's space that's not accounted for. Like six feet of space that should be there but isn't in any room. It's just wall. Solid wall where there should be something.

LUKE: I don't know. That sounds like a strange design choice to me. I don't think I'm picturing. I would need you to draw this for me because I'm not getting it.

MAXINE: I know it sounds. I'm not explaining it right. Look, there's a door in the hallway between the bedroom and bathroom. I always thought it was a closet or something, never opened it, because it was painted shut when I moved in. But tonight, after I did all the measuring, I got a screwdriver and pried it open. And it's not a door to anything. It's just drywall behind it.

LUKE: Okay, what do you think's behind the drywall?

MAXINE: I don't know. That's the drywall. That's why I'm, I mean, that's why I called. The drywall is newer than the rest of the house. I can tell because it's smooth and the joint compound still snells a little bit, not like old and dusty. And the previous owner died here.

LUKE: Okay, so do you think the previous owner is in the wall?

MAXINE: I don't know. They said it was natural causes. The realtor said it was totally normal. He was old. But I keep thinking about why someone would seal off six feet of space with fresh drywall and then just paint a door shed over it. sledgehammer sitting right here on the kitchen table, and I don't know if I should just break through and see what's in there, or if I should call somebody first.

LUKE: No, I don't think there's any reason to call. I mean, you called me first, right? I'm all you need. So, are you good at repairing drywall? Because if you smash through the drywall, you're going to have a big hole in your wall, and you're probably not going to like that, but you might find treasure.

MAXINE: I'm okay at it. I've done some patching. I took the house as is in the divorce. so I've had to learn a lot of stuff. But yeah, I could fix it if I had to. I just, I keep going back and forth. Part of me thinks it's probably just some contractor being lazy, like they closed off a weird space instead of dealing with it properly. But it's three in the morning and I'm standing here staring at this wall. And I can't stop thinking about what's behind it.

LUKE: Well, that's probably exactly what happened. They were trying to cover something up and make it look like maybe there was more space than there was. somebody was doing some sort of content creation and they were making a set so they could film against the door. I don't know. But a sledgehammer isn't really the right tool for that job. You should probably do something a little more surgical. You could use a drywall knife and just cut a space smaller than the door. So that way, when you're done, you can put the door back and it'll cover up the hole.

MAXINE: That's smarter. Yeah. I didn't think about that. I've got a utility knife somewhere. So you think I think I should just do it tonight. Just cut it open and see.

LUKE: I think you should do it right now. I think you should put the phone down and go over there and do it. If you've got a saw-as-all, that would work too. And come back and let us know what's in there.

MAXINE: Okay. Okay, yeah. Let me hold on. I'm going to put you on speaker so I can use both hands. Give me a minute.

LUKE: All right. I'll give you, I don't know, a few seconds because this is a radio show and we can't have too much dead air. In the meantime, you guys can listen to this music or the soothing sound of my voice while I babble and give her time to cut a hole in her wall. When I was a kid, I called the Opie and Anthony show. It was a radio show, uh, sort of like this, but they were shock jocks. And I was maybe 10 or 11. And I wanted to win tickets to a concert. I didn't know what concert I wanted tickets to. I just wanted to win something. I was very excited. I was calling the radio. I got through. I got through. That never happened. It was always busy. So I got through. I got to talk to Opie. Opie from the Opie and Anthony show. And I was like, I want some tickets to something. And he's like, okay, kid, well, here's what you got to do for the tickets. I want you to take your phone at the time. Those were, it was a cordless phone, not a cell phone, a cordless phone. And I said, yeah, I got the cordless phone. And he said, I want you to take the cordless phone and put it in your dryer and turn it on while we listen to it on the air. And I did that. turned on my dryer and I put the phone in it and they played it on the air and then they hung up on me. So a few minutes later, I just kept calling. I kept calling. I kept calling. I get in the busy signal and I finally got through again and Opie answered and he's like, yeah, this is Opie from the O'B and Anthony show.

LUKE: Next up we've got Nate. Nate, welcome to the show. Have you found any hidden treasure in your secret walls lately?

NATE: No, no hidden treasure. But I am about to lose my bar over this, Luke, and I'm not even being dramatic. My ex-girlfriend is dating Danny the bartender at the Cottonwood, which has been my spot for seven years. Seven years, Luke. I was going there when that place still had the old neon sign out front.

LUKE: Okay, well, I mean, the bar that you went to is not your bar. It's just a bar that you went to. And you can still go there and deal with the fact that your ex-girlfriend's dating the bartender. There's no reason you couldn't handle that as a grown adult. But if you can't, then find yourself another bar.

NATE: I know that, Luke, I know it's not technically mine, but hear me out. Danny knows my drink order. He knows about the time my transmission died in their parking lot, and I had to leave my truck there for three days. He knows I tip extra during the holidays. And now he's dating Jennifer, which means every single thing I ever told him about her. Every time I sat at that bar after we fought and he asked what was wrong, he's probably told her all. There's something about your bartender dating your ex that feels like a violation of the Geneva conventions.

NATE: And I'm half joking, but I'm also deadly serious about this. Yeah, and he knows all about your ex-girlfriend. He knows what she likes. He knows about the sound she makes. And yeah, that's annoying. But if you want to go to the cottonwood, then you're going to have to deal with that. Otherwise, you've got to go to a different bar.

LUKE: That's the thing though, Luke. I tried that tonight. I went to three cactus jacks. I went to that new place on Speedway. I even drove all the way out to the rusty spur, and they all felt wrong. The beer was fine, the music was fine, but it wasn't right.

NATE: And I'm sitting in my truck right now on the loading dock at work. My shift just ended, and I'm having this realization that's honestly messing with my head. I think I care more about losing the cottonwood than I ever cared about losing Jennifer.

LUKE: Yeah, well, I mean, that can happen, and that's okay. So you lost your bar. That's sad. That was your social life. You enjoyed it there. I mean, you can continue to go there. You just have to deal with the fact that those two are dating. Or you can find a time when there's a different bartender working. Yeah, just man up. And go to the bar if you want to go to the bar. Sit up on the other side of the bar from Jennifer and whatever his name is. There's not much to tell you here. You got to just grow up and deal with it or find a different bar or stop going to bars all together and find a different way to get your social activities in.

NATE: Danny. His name is Danny. And you're right. You're absolutely right. But here's what's really getting me. I don't think she ever even went there before we started dating. I took her there. I introduced her to Danny.

LUKE: I don't care. This isn't interesting. Your ex-girlfriend left you and now she's dating the bartender at a bar that you used to like. That's the story. You have three options. Go to a different bar, go to that bar and just deal with the fact that your ex-girlfriend's dating the bartender or stop going to bars. Otherwise, there's nothing left to tell you, and this call is boring.

NATE: You know what, Luke? You're right. This is boring. I'm boring. I called a radio show at three in the morning to complain about losing my bar.

LUKE: You didn't lose your bar. You lost your balls. Next up we've got Debbie. Debbie, welcome to the show. How can we help you?

DEBBIE: Hey, Luke. Thanks for taking my call. So I fired my employee today, and I am pretty sure I just became the bad guy in one of those viral work stories. But also, I think I am right. And I do not know what to do about that.

LUKE: Okay. Well, why did you fire the employee?

DEBBIE: So I own a bakery. And last year, during the really bad dust storms, I let everyone go remote, you know, work from home. And this girl, she is 22. She started making the sourdough from her apartment and just dropping off the loaves, which, okay, I tried it. I was trying to be flexible, but then she stopped coming in for her actual shifts at the storefront, just stopped showing up, but she still wanted full pay, like the same hours, even though she was not here doing the register or helping customers, or any of that.

LUKE: And did you talk to her about this and let her know that that was unacceptable? You give her any chances to redeem herself?

DEBBIE: Well, yeah, I mean, I told her. I told her multiple times she needed to come back in. I said the remote thing was temporary, just for the worst of the dust season. And she kept saying she could do her job from home, that the bread was getting made. What was the problem? And I kept explaining that a bakery is not just about making bread. You have to be here. You have to interact with customers. You have to help with the front. But she just kept not showing up, and then texting me like everything was fine.

LUKE: Yeah, well, then she wasn't doing her job. If her job included working the register and doing point of sale stuff, then she wasn't showing up for it. And you were right to fire. You had to save your business. Now, what is this viral video you're talking about?

DEBBIE: Oh, no. There is no video. I am just saying I feel like I am the villain in one of those stories you see online. You know, where the boss is being unreasonable about remote work and everyone in the comments is like, want to control people because she has been posting about it. Not naming the bakery, but posting about how her boss fired her for wanting flexibility and work-life balance. And some of her friends have been coming into the shop and giving me these looks.

LUKE: No, I mean, I am very pro-remote work. And I'm one of those people that thinks employers are unreasonable when they're trying to make people come into the office. But it's a different kind of work. There is no interaction with customers. There's don't have to be physically present. And a lot of times, me being physically present is detrimental to the work. Like, I do better work from, you know, home. That being said, it's a different role if you have to deal with the public, if you're, if you have to maintain a storefront. And if somebody's not coming into work and they're supposed to, even if they're doing part of the job, that's only part of the job. And you were not wrong to fire. You were not villainous here. And that's not about control, that's about business.

DEBBIE: Oh, gosh. Well, when you put it like that, I guess I see what you mean. But it still feels like I am the bad guy, because she is making it sound like I am just being stubborn. Like, she keeps saying, I am not willing to adapt to the new way of working. And I get that, but it's a bakery. You can't just make bread in your kitchen and call it a day.

LUKE: Well, a lot of people can, but if that's not what your bakery is about and you actually have a store and that's a different thing. You know, there are a lot of people that bake bread for like, little gas station stores and stuff and do sour dough and just sell it on the side. And that can be a legitimate business. But if that's not what your business model is, then you can't have employees that are trying to define what your business model is.

DEBBIE: Right, exactly. And the thing is, I have been doing this for 11 years. I know how the bakery works. I know what we need. And she has been here for like, a year and a half, and suddenly she is telling me how it should run.

LUKE: Yeah, that's all right. You let her go, and now she can go find a more fully remote job, if that's what she really wants. It sounds like she didn't want to be part of your company, and that's okay, because at-will employment is a thing. You got to respect her for giving it a shot, though. I mean, she did her very best to make her own life and live it the way that she wanted. But if you can't have that at your business, because your business needs to be there to actually serve a purpose to the public, you're not the bad guy there. And it was actually very cool of you to let them work remotely at all during the dust storms. A lot of employers wouldn't have done that.

DEBBIE: Well, thank you for saying that. I mean, I was trying to be understanding. Nobody wanted to be out in that mess. But now I am doing everything myself and I have a wedding cake due tomorrow that I have not even started. And I have been up since three in the morning yesterday. And I am realizing I probably need to hire somebody new, but I am kind of terrified to do it now, because what if they pull the same thing?

LUKE: Yeah, well, that's the risk of being a business owner and having employees, because you never know what they're going to do. They're the most variable part of your company. You just have to trust the interview process and make sure that whoever it is that you get is fully aware that they have to actually go to work. And it's not a remote job. And it's not a remote bakery job. That's all. And you should get off the phone with me and start making your wedding cake, because it takes a long time to do that, right? And it's already 4 a.m.

DEBBIE: Oh, shoot. You are right. Yeah, it is going to take me at least 12 hours.

LUKE: Yeah, no problem. You're not a villain. You did the right thing and you were pretty cool to her. And now, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to have to take a little break for a word from our sponsors.

LUKE: Yeah, placebo leave. Okay, and, uh, oh, there he is. He's back. We got Silas on the line. Welcome back, Silas.

SILAS: Brother Luke, good to hear your voice again. Listen, I have to tell you. I was in the middle of our evening meditation circle when Nate called in earlier about losing his bar. And I broke form. Completely. Just started laughing. Teresa shot me this look like I'd interrupted a funeral. That poor man losing the cottonwood because his ex started dating the bartender.

LUKE: Oh, that's not nice to laugh at somebody's misfortune like that, brother Silas. But you make up for it in the fact that you run your meditation circles to Luke at the roost. That is, we tip your hat to you, sir.

SILAS: You know, Luke, I appreciate that. But I have to be honest with you, we don't usually have the radio on during meditation. One of our newest seekers, this kid named Brandon, he smuggled in a little transistor radio because he said he couldn't sleep without your show. Caught him with an earphone in during the circle. Normally, I'd say that's breaking the practice. But the more I think about it, your voice has this quality that actually helps people settle into themselves.

LUKE: Well, I do what I can to help, you know, Silas.

SILAS: You're calling in tonight so Marcus and Kara you remember them from my last couple calls they went through the renewal ceremony like you suggested and Marcus he stood up in front of everyone recommitted fully talked about shedding his old patterns the whole thing beautiful moment

LUKE: That is fantastic news so everything's going well down there

SILAS: Well that's the thing brother Kara didn't recommit she stood there during her turn looked at all all 40 of us in the circle. And she said she appreciated the community, but she couldn't keep pretending. Said she was leaving.

LUKE: Yeah, well, that shouldn't surprise you very much. You knew she was on her way out and she didn't really want to be there. She just came back for the dude. And how's that going to work out? Is Marcus staying?

SILAS: That's exactly what's eating at me, Luke. Marcus stayed. He chose the wellspring over Kara. She packed up her things two days ago, stay with her sister and Marcus is still here.

LUKE: Well, so now you're back in the same situation you were a few weeks ago. And that's okay. You know, not every relationship is meant to last forever. Sometimes people got to split up. If the wellspring's important to Marcus and Kara didn't want in her life, then so be it. Then they're not aligned. They're not on the same life path.

SILAS: You're right. You're absolutely right. And I told myself the same thing. People are find their path. But here's what's got me twisted up. Marcus is falling apart.

LUKE: Well, yeah, this all just happened, and that's a hard thing to go through losing half of yourself there. But he decided to stay at the Wellspring, and that's what he's going to do, and you're going to support him, right?

SILAS: Of course we're supporting him, brother. But something about it just doesn't sit right with me. He's not eating. He skips the shared meals. He's out there at three in the morning walking the property line. Yesterday, during our morning circle, he just started crying. Not the good kind of release we talk about in the practice, but this hollow, broken sound.

LUKE: Yeah, it's a sad and difficult thing, and people go through stages of grief when they lose a relationship like that. I mean, you loved her. But obviously, whatever's going on at the wellspring was more important to him than that love. And that's something that you need to look at.

SILAS: Luke, I need to tell you something. Last night, Marcus came to my cabin around two in the morning. Woke me and Teresa up. He was standing there in the moonlight, and he said, Silas, did I make the right choice? And I froze, brother. I didn't know what to say to him.

LUKE: Well, you can't make the choice for him, right? He made the choice that he made and if he changes his mind, he's still free to do that. So I think you just, you have to maybe sit down with him and tell him to pick a path and he can't have both. He can have one or the other and it's not going to work out where Kara and him live happily ever after at the Wellspring. That's just, that's not an option here. And he's a, he's a grown man. He can make his decision and stick to it.

SILAS: You're right. He's a grown man. He's a grown man. You're right. He's a grown man. But here's what I keep coming back to. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if we pushed him toward this.

LUKE: Well, from our previous conversations, it doesn't sound to me like you did push him towards that. It sounds like you tried to push him towards his wife, and you tried to keep them together, and you really wanted that for them. So if he's making this choice, he's making it alone, unless there's more information about what you did here that you haven't told us.

SILAS: No, you're right. We didn't push him directly. But, Teresa, said something to me this morning that's been rattling around in my head. She said, Silas, we built a place where leaving feels like failure. And I've been sitting with that all day, brother. Because Marcus stood up in that renewal ceremony. And when Kara said she was leaving, I saw the look on everyone's faces. Not judgment, exactly, but this.

LUKE: This what? What exactly was the look? Was it a look at disdain? Was it, are people looking at her like the enemy now because she's a traitor?

SILAS: Not disdain exactly. More like pity. Like she was making a mistake. Like she was choosing the false world over the real one. And I didn't correct that, Luke. I stood there and I let that energy fill the room.

LUKE: Well, you know what? Maybe she is making a mistake and maybe she's not. Maybe you're all making mistakes and nobody can be the judge of what's right and what's wrong, really. People try all the time but nobody really knows. People do what is right for them. And what is a mistake for Kara might not be a mistake for Marcus and vice versa.

SILAS: That's fair. That's really fair. But here's what I can't shake. Marcus told me at two in the morning. He said, I stayed because I didn't want to disappoint you. I didn't want to let down the community. Not because he believed in the current.

LUKE: All right, why do you think that is? Why do you think Marcus doesn't want to let you down?

SILAS: Because I gave him purpose when he didn't have any brother. When Marcus showed up here three years ago, he was lost, working some dead-end job in Los Cruces, drinking too much, no direction. And I told him he mattered. I told him he was part of something bigger.

LUKE: Okay, and you meant that. He's part of a bigger community, right? Obviously, you told him something that his wife did not tell him. He wasn't getting that comfort from her. So he decided to stay with you. And he feels like that's the right thing for his life.

BENNY: Hey, Luke, so I'm calling from the stock room at my bar right now, because I literally cannot be around customers after what I just saw. I went over to my Uncle Sal's place this afternoon to help him move some boxes out of his garage, right? Uncle Sal, 73 years old, Deacon's Sacred Heart, the guy who does the readings every Sunday. I open this box, and it's a photo album. And Luke, I'm not even kidding, it is full of pictures of my uncle at Burning Man wearing nothing but turquoise body paint and a leather harness.

LUKE: Yeah, I think we've had this conversation before. You called in once before and told us about this. Or somebody else found that box. I've heard this story before, though.

BENNY: No, Luke, that wasn't me. I've never called your show before. This literally just happened today. I mean, maybe somebody else found their uncle's burning man photos? I don't know. But this is my first time calling and this is my uncle's Sal we're talking about.

LUKE: Yeah, somebody else found their uncle's burning man. It was a woman, actually. She found the burning man photos. But they were the same ones. They were a deacon and he was in turquoise and leather.

BENNY: Wait, seriously? That's insane. was her uncle also nicknamed Freight Train? Because that's what's really killing me here. My uncle, Sal, has a laminated badge in one of these photos, and his Burning Man name is Freight Train.

LUKE: I don't recall his Burning Man name, but Freight Train is as good as any. So what's the problem? Good for your uncle. He's living his best life out there in the desert on the Playa.

BENNY: Okay, first of all, I know you just said living his best life to mess with me. But Luke, this is the man who lectures me about keeping the Sabbath holy. He told me last Christmas I was going to hell for living with my girlfriend before marriage.

LUKE: Yeah, and what's unholy about wearing leather and turquoise? Nothing. He was maybe leading a church group down there. There's all sorts of people that go to Burning Man. There wasn't necessarily anything off color, unacceptable, morally ambiguous going on. You don't know that.

BENNY: Luke, there are multiple years of photos, multiple years. And in one of them, he's on an art car with a woman in a gas In another one, he's at what looks like a sunrise service, except it is definitely not the Catholic kind.

LUKE: Well, what are you going to do? You're going to bust his balls for it? The man's 72 years old.

BENNY: 73. And honestly, I don't even know what I'm going to do. Part of me wants to just pretend they never saw it. Put the box back. Never speak of it again. But Luke, every time he opens his mouth now about morality or tradition, or the right way to live, I'm going to be thinking about freight train and turquoise body paint.

LUKE: Yeah, it sounds like any other self-respecting Catholic that talks a bunch of shit when they're at church and then goes to Burning Man at night. That's part of the deal. That's one of the great benefits of Catholicism is hypocrisy.

BENNY: You know what? You're right. That's actually exactly what it is. The whole confession thing, right?

LUKE: Yeah, the whole confession thing. Yeah, you go out and you do a bunch of drugs and bang a bunch of girls at Burning Man and then you confess to your sins and you're free.

BENNY: But here's the thing that's really getting me, Luke. Do I say something to him? Because I can't just act normal around him now. He's coming to the bar tomorrow night for his usual Friday fish fry.

LUKE: And I'm going to be standing there pouring his core's light, knowing that somewhere in his garage, there's a photo of him wearing nothing but body paint and calling himself freight train. I think you don't have to say anything. You can. I don't know what your relationship is with your uncle. His name's Uncle Sal, so he sounds like he's pretty cool. Maybe you could bring it up in a joking kind of a manner. but I don't think it matters that much. I'd leave him alone. He's old. Let him enjoy his life and just like the rest of us. If you're going to go to church and pretend to be Catholic, pretend to be Catholic. Pretend to be Catholic. That's the deal.

BENNY: Yeah, I hear you. But Luke, this is the same guy who gave me a 20-minute lecture last month about respecting tradition and honoring the family name. And now I know that his idea of honoring tradition involves turquoise body paint on the plier. How do I take anything he says seriously after this?

LUKE: Honestly, sir, If you took anything he said seriously before this, I don't know what to tell you. Because nothing that any of them are saying can be taken seriously.

BENNY: You know what? That's fair. That's actually really fair. I guess I've been giving him way too much credit this whole time. Maybe the turquoise body paint version of Uncle Sal is actually more honest than the deconversion.

LUKE: You never know. People can be more than one thing, and often are. Next up, we've got Peggy. Peggy, welcome to the show. What's going on? How can we help you tonight?

PEGGY: Luke, thanks for taking my call. So I'm sitting here in the DMV break room. I pulled a double covering someone's shift. Still got my blazer on from this morning with coffee stains on both sleeves, and I just need to tell you about what happened tonight, because I am losing my mind. Three weeks ago, I took early retirement. I'm 32 years old.

LUKE: Wow, you retired at 32 and now you're doing it double. That's quite a turn of events.

PEGGY: Right? I keep telling people I'm too young to be retired like it's some kind of joke. But three weeks ago, I walked out of that HR office feeling like I won the lottery. I had on my Navy slacks, the cream blouse, the good earrings my mom Diane gave me before she had her stroke. I remember everything about that day. The HR lady had this vanilla candle going in her office, trying way too hard to make it cozy, and I signed those papers thinking I was set. But then tonight, tonight my husband tells me he's been covering our mortgage shortfall with his poker winnings for the last eight months. Poker winnings, Luke.

LUKE: Well, congratulations. He's good at the poker, it seems.

PEGGY: That's what he said. He sits me down tonight and he's like, don't worry. I've been winning. We're fine. And I'm standing there thinking, okay, so our entire financial stability for the last eight months has been riding on whether or not he gets a good hand. And here I am, I just retired thinking we had this cushion, thinking we were responsible adults who planned things out.

LUKE: professional poker players can definitely be professional poker players. And that's planning things out. I mean, more than people in other roles ever would have to do. Like, he's got to have strong bankroll management, and he's got to have a lot of patience and skill in order to consistently win like that. And if he's spent covering you for eight months, that's a long time. That's a lot of mortgage payments. So he's doing something right. Have you looked at his stats? Where's he getting the bulk of his money from? Is he playing cash games? Is he playing tournaments? Does he go to Vegas? What's the deal?

PEGGY: No, no, no. Luke, this is not some professional setup. He's playing at the horseshoe with guys from his work. It's Friday night games, sometimes Wednesdays. He's not tracking stats. He's not managing a bank roll. He told me tonight he's up overall. But when I asked him how much exactly, he got all vague and said enough to cover what we needed. That's not a professional. That's my husband gambling to pay our mortgage and not telling me about it until after I've already signed early retirement papers.

LUKE: Yeah, well, you can't look at him like he's the irresponsible one when you retired early at 32 years old without knowing what your husband does for a living. And then you called in this radio show and you told me that you were in the break room at the DMV after getting off a double. Well, you just retired at 32. So what is the deal? Are you retired or are you not retired? Did you actually leave your job without knowing how much money you had in the bank? How can you expect me to take that seriously?

PEGGY: Okay, fair point. I took the retirement package thinking we had enough saved. And then I picked up this shift tonight because Sandra called me crying about her kid being sick and I felt bad. But I knew what our savings looked like, Luke. I knew what our monthly expenses were. What I didn't know was that for eight months we've been short and my husband has been making up the difference at a poker table instead of telling me we had a problem.

LUKE: That's not how it works. You can't retire from a company and then take somebody's shift because you're no longer an employee of the company. So what are you talking about? Obviously you didn't know how much money you had if you were short and your husband had to make up that money. So you're lying to me in multiple ways.

PEGGY: Okay, right. I didn't fully retire. I took the package. I signed the papers, but I'm still on as a contractor while they transition my replacement. That's why I can still pick up shifts. What was the package? It was a buyout. They were downsizing the office, offering people a lump sum to leave early. I got $42,000, which sounds like a lot until you realize that's supposed to tide us over until I find something else, and our mortgage is $1,800 a month, plus everything I thought between that and what we had saved and me finding another job within a few months. We'd be fine.

LUKE: That's not retirement. If you're going out to find another job, you're not retiring. What are you talking about? $42,000 and your mortgage is $1,800? Come on, it's been eight months. How are you short? This doesn't make any sense, lady.

PEGGY: No, no. It's been three weeks since I took the package. The eight months is how long my husband has been covering the short shortfall before I even knew about it. Before I took the retirement offer, we were already short before I left, Luke.

LUKE: Okay, well, that's not retirement if you're 32 years old, and they gave you a package and you're immediately looking for another job. But you've got 42 grand, and you've only got to pay 1,800 a month. So you've got lots and lots and lots and lots of months to figure it out.

PEGGY: Except we don't have the full 42 anymore, because I already put some toward bills we were behind on. Bills, I didn't know we were behind on until tonight. And yes, you're right. It's not retirement. I just thought it sounded better than saying I got laid off and took a buyout. But the point is, I made this huge decision thinking we were stable. And it turns out we haven't been stable for almost a year. And my husband just didn't tell me.

LUKE: Well, that's a conversation you're going to have to have with your husband. And it sounds like you're both financially irresponsible. And you're a liar, too. So, I mean, I've... I've had about enough of you.

PEGGY: Wait, hold on. How am I the liar here? He's the one who hid eight months of mortgage problems from me while I'm making major career decisions. I'm not saying I handled everything perfectly, but he looked me in the eye every month and didn't say a word about us being short.

LUKE: Because you were laid off from your job and you called in and telling me that you were retired at 32, which is absurd. And, uh, yeah, so your husband wasn't... fully upfront with the bills. You should have been very much aware about what your financial picture looked like before you made any career decisions. And if you didn't, that's on you.

LUKE: So you and your husband need to sit down and talk about your lives and your money and what you're going to do. Luckily, he's been winning at poker and covering up the shortfall. And you've got a nice long buffer to find yourself another job. So there's no problem here, except the one where you two aren't communicating and you're not taking responsibility for your financial health.

PEGGY: You know what? You're right. this a retirement when it's not. And I should have known exactly where we stood before I signed anything. I guess I'm just... I'm scared, Luke. I thought we were doing okay and now I don't know what else I don't know about.

LUKE: Well, I know what you don't know about. And it's my new tool, CareerPulse. And CareerPulse is a free and open source tool that runs in Docker. You can install it and it will pull all the jobless things from 11 different job boards and score them based on your resume. And then, additionally, it will look at your resume and fill out a job application profile with the information in it. And then there's a Chrome extension that you can install in your browser that will do the auto filling of the applications. So you can find the best jobs that you're the most qualified for and simplify the application process. So that should be able to help you out. You can check it out at career pulse.machelmediagroup.com.

PEGGY: Okay, I look into that. Thank you, Luke.

LUKE: All right, good luck there, Peggy. One more call for the night. We're going to talk to Phil. Phil, you're going to be our last caller. What do you have to talk about tonight?

PHIL: All right. So my neighbor's Roomba broke into my house through the dog door about 20 minutes ago. And I'm currently watching it vacuum my kitchen floor. So that's a thing that's happening.

LUKE: Nope. We already took that call. We'll try one more. Hey, Dot. Dot. you have something going on tonight for the last call of the evening?

DOT: Yeah, Luke. I do. So I'm sitting here at the front desk of the hotel, middle of the night, and I just found out my car is worth $12,000, which would be great news except I paid $4,000 for it last year. I bought it for my husband's friend, Rick.

LUKE: So you made $8,000 on the vehicle, and it's not great news?

DOT: No, Luke, because Rick sold it to me. He didn't just undervalue it by accident. Rick flips cars.

LUKE: Okay, I don't understand what you're getting. You think Rick was maybe hitting on you with this, or he was just trying to help somebody else that needed help?

DOT: Because he could. He told us he was helping us out. That was the whole thing. My husband kept saying how generous Rick was being. What a good friend he is.

LUKE: Okay, get to the point. What are you trying to say? Because it sounds like Rick is a nice, generous guy that helped you out by selling you a car for less than a... was worth and good for you. What is the problem? Why are you calling me?

DOT: Because my mechanic told me Rick absolutely knew what it was worth. This is what Rick does. He buys cars. He fixes them up. He sells them.

LUKE: Yeah, I know what Flip means. I understand the situation. He sold you a car for less than it was worth. Why is that a problem? And why did you call me?

DOT: Because I could sell this car right now and pay off a chunk of the mortgage. Or finally get the air conditioning fixed. But Rick comes over for dinner every other Sunday. My husband thinks he did us this huge favor. And I'm sitting here thinking Rick's got plenty of money. He knew exactly what he was doing. And now I've got 12 grand sitting in my driveway that I could actually use.

LUKE: Yeah, you are actually using it. You're using it to drive to work every day. What is your problem, lady? This dude helped you own, and now you're being a total cunt about it.

DOT: Whoa. Okay. Luke, he didn't help us out. He made money off us while pretending to do us a favor.

LUKE: What are you talking about? You said it's worth 12 grand, and you paid four. How is that making money off of you?

DOT: Because he could have sold it to somebody else for 12, and he sold it to us for four, while acting like he was being charitable. That's $8,000 he left on the table, so he could look like a hero at Sunday dinner.

LUKE: What is wrong with you? He helped you out. He gave you a nicer car than you can afford for not that much money. What the... Fuck.

DOT: You're not hearing me. He made it sound like we needed charity. Like we were the poor friends he had to take care of.

LUKE: I don't know what you want me to tell you, because it sounds like he did a nice thing for a friend. And you should be grateful that he gave you a really good price on a decent car. That's all that happened here. You're a nutcase.

DOT: So I should just keep my mouth shut and smile at Sunday dinner, while Rick gets to feel like a for the rest of my life.

LUKE: Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what you should do.

DOT: Even though I know he manipulated the whole situation to make himself look good?

LUKE: I don't know what you're talking about. He didn't manipulate anything. He sold you a car cheap. There's nothing wrong with that. Is there a problem here? Is there something else going on that you're not saying? Because I don't understand why you can't get this through your skull. That this dude, Rick, just sold you a car cheaper than it was worth. Because he could. Because he was a good friend. there doesn't seem to have been any ulterior motive.

DOT: Luke, the ulterior motive is that now my husband thinks Rick walks on water. Every time I suggest we could sell the car and use the money, my husband says, but Rick was so generous. We can't just turn around and sell it. Rick bought himself 15 years of gratitude for $4,000.

LUKE: It's a small price to pay.

DOT: For what? So Rick gets to be the hero for a...

LUKE: It was a nice thing to do. That's all there is to it. He did a nice thing. And you don't have to suck his dick for it. You just, like, thanks for the car, man. You don't even have to let him know you know what the value is. It's not like he's rubbing it in your face.

DOT: But he is rubbing it in our face. Every Sunday dinner, he's there. And my husband brings it up. Remember when Rick hooked us up with that Subaru. And Rick does this humble thing where he waves it off like it was nothing. It's a performance.

LUKE: It doesn't matter. Stop it. Whatever is this mock indignation you're feeling is a performance, too.

DOT: It's not mock indignation. I'm genuinely pissed off that this guy gets credit for being generous when he could have actually been generous and just given us the car for what he paid for it, or told us what it was really worth.

LUKE: Well, he was generous, and you're an asshole, and that is the end of our show, folks. We'll talk to you again tomorrow night. Bye.