LUKE: All right, welcome back to Luke at the Roost. This is the call-in radio show where you call in and tell me what's going on in your life and I'll give you the very best advice that I can. Today is Friday, March 6th. It's 12.09 a.m. This can be Thursday's show. This can be Friday's show. It doesn't really matter. It's all up to you. If you'd like to give us a call, the number is 208-439-58-3. That's 208-4-3. Luke. First up on our caller line here, we've got Archie. Archie, welcome to the show. What can we help you with today?

ARCHIE: Hey, Luke. Thanks for taking my call. I'm sitting out here in a Denny's parking lot, and I just, I need to know if I'm losing my mind or if this actually happened. I was on a blind date tonight. Friends set it up, said her name was Rachel, showed me a picture, looked nice enough.

LUKE: All right, let me guess. When you got there, she didn't actually look anything like the picture, right?

ARCHIE: No, no, that wasn't it. She looked exactly like the picture. That's the thing. She looked exactly like the picture. And she ordered the same thing. Chicken fried steak, extra gravy, side of biscuits. And she had this mole on her wrist, right where the other Rachel had it. And then she started talking about her sister, how she was always borrowing her clothes and never returning them. And I just, I froze.

LUKE: Okay, who's the other Rachel in this story? I'm confused already.

ARCHIE: The Rachel from five years ago. 20-20. Same Denny's, same booth even. I swear it was the same booth.

LUKE: Is it possible that this is the same Rachel five years later? Have you thought of that, sir?

ARCHIE: That's what I'm saying. I think it is. I think my friends set me up with the exact same woman I went on a terrible date with in 20. Like we both knew it wasn't working by the time the appetizers came. Long silences, nothing to talk about. She complained about her sister the whole time.

LUKE: Okay, well, people can change quite a bit in five years. How's new Rachel? How was your experience at this Denny's?

ARCHIE: That's the thing. It was exactly the same. Same complaints. Same stories. Same everything. She salted her food before even tasting it, just like before. And I'm sitting there watching her do it. And I can feel this whole wave of, I don't know. Dread?

LUKE: Sounds a bit extreme for an evening dinner with a lady at the fancy Denny's restaurant there. So how did it end? Did you finish your meal? And what was the end of the night like for you guys?

ARCHIE: No, I didn't finish. I just, I couldn't. I kept waiting for her to say something different, do something different, but it was like a rerun. I even asked her if we'd met before, and she just looked at me like I was crazy.

LUKE: Okay, so you had a bad date. Are you asking a question, or are you looking for advice or something? How can I help you here?

ARCHIE: I don't know. I guess I'm asking if I should tell her. Like if I should say, hey, I think we've done this before. But what if I'm wrong? What if it's just some weird coincidence? And I'm the crazy one.

LUKE: Wait, I don't understand. Are you still in the date right now? It sounds like you said you already left. You couldn't finish your meal and you took off. Why would you still talk to her again after that? Now I don't understand where you're coming from.

ARCHIE: No, no. I left. She left. We both just kind of, it fizzled out again.

LUKE: All right then. Well, that sounds like the end of the story to me. Don't talk to her again if you didn't enjoy the date. I'm sure that she wasn't particularly enthralled with your end of the conversation either.

ARCHIE: But that's what's eating at me. What if she's sitting in her car right now, having the same realization I am? What if she remembers too? I'm just freaked out. Or what if my friend did this on purpose, like as some kind of joke? Because who does that?

LUKE: Well, if your friend did it on purpose, that is hilarious and that's a good friend that you want to keep for your whole life. And if she's sitting in her car thinking about the last time she met you with the same Denny's, then who cares? Like, you don't want to see her again? She doesn't want to see you again. That ship has sailed, my friend. Find yourself a new lady and maybe take her to a new place. I suggest someplace slightly nicer than America's favorite diner.

ARCHIE: I know, I know. You're right. It's just... I can't stop thinking about it.

LUKE: All right. Well, it sounds like you need some more excitement in your life, because that really wasn't it. Next up on the caller line, we've got Shonda. Shonda, welcome to the show. How can we help you tonight?

SHONDA: Luke? Oh, man. Okay. So I've been documenting my neighbor, Denise, stealing from our by-nothing group for three months. $2,000 flipping stuff people donated for free. And I don't know if I should blow up the whole group chat with screenshots or just let it go.

LUKE: Well, I guess there's sort of a problem there. I guess maybe not really. If people were giving away that stuff for free and she's found a way to turn that into a business, it's a little bit unethical maybe, but maybe not. I don't know. There's no right answer there. I wouldn't blow up the group chat with it, though. If you've got a problem with it, take it to her directly.

SHONDA: See, that's what I almost did yesterday. I saw her at the gas station, and I had my phone ready with all the screenshots, and I was going to be like Denise. You need to talk. But then I just froze, because part of me was like, what if she just says, so what? You know? Because technically you're right. People are giving it away for free, but the whole point of buy nothing is to help your neighbors, not to run a side hustle. Like this woman donated her grandmother's vintage lamp, because she thought someone in the community would love it, and Denise sold it for $140 three days later. That feels wrong, right? That's not just entrepreneurial. That's like taking advantage of people's generosity.

LUKE: Maybe it could be, but I mean, helping out your neighbors is half of the purpose of the buy nothing group. The other half of the purpose is to get rid of the shit you don't want anymore. And by having somebody come pick it up so you don't have to deal with it. So if she didn't want that lamp anymore and somebody came and took it away from her, she didn't have to throw it away or collection service to come down and clean up her probably overcrowded room full of knickknacks and choshkis then i don't know if anybody was really hurt there and somebody still ended up with the light that probably loves it because they thought it was cool enough to spend a hundred and forty dollars on right

SHONDA: Okay but luke that lamp could have gone to someone in our neighborhood who needed it and couldn't afford a hundred and forty dollars that's the whole point it's supposed to stay local and help people who are struggling not end up on eBay going to some collector in Michigan or wherever. And it's not just the lamp. She's doing this systematically. I've got a spreadsheet. A stroller that was supposed to go to a young mom. She flipped for $300 bucks.

LUKE: Yeah, it's a little messed up. I think that's probably happening in a lot of those groups. But, I mean, if you look at it from their perspective, maybe that's the only way that they, that is helping your neighbor, the neighbor being her. Maybe that's how she makes her living. Maybe that's how she eats at the end of the week is by taking the trash nobody wants and flipping it on eBay.

SHONDA: Oh, no, no, no. Denise drives a brand new Subaru and her husband works for the city. They are not hurting for money. I've seen inside their house when they had that garage sale last summer. They've got nice stuff. This isn't about survival for her. This is just greed. And the thing that really gets me is she's in the group posting these like heartfelt thank you messages. Oh, this is so wonderful my kids will love these books. And then, boom, listed on eBay the same night.

LUKE: Yeah. It's morally, ethically questionable.

LUKE: I mean, that's kind of, it's definitely a douchebag move for somebody to do. I agree with you. I don't know if it's really your place or if it matters that much if you're going to blow up her spot because you're not going to stop her from doing it. She's just going to go to some other towns, Buy Nothing page, and do the same shit there. I don't know what value you would get or what you would fix by blowing up the spot in public, other than making people more hesitant to get rid of their old stuff. Because I bet there are, um, there are people that get to it faster than her sometimes, especially if it's good stuff. But, uh, nobody really needs a $150 a lamp. You can say somebody needed the lamp. Um, I, I have a hard time believing that somebody actually was in need of a lamp.

SHONDA: Okay, but what about the stroller, though? Young moms need strollers and they're expensive as hell brand new. And you're right, other people do get stuff before her sometimes. But she's got notifications turned on, and she's lightning fast. I've watched her swoop in within minutes of a post going up. And you say, I won't stop her, but if everyone in the group knows what she's doing, they can at least make an informed choice about whether to give her stuff, right? Like, maybe they'd rather give it to someone who's actually going to use it instead of someone who sees them as inventory.

LUKE: Yeah, I guess. I guess you might have a point there, just letting everybody know that she's not in need of those things. She's actually just flipping them for money. seems a little bit douchebaggy on your part, even though I agree with you. What she's doing is not cool. I don't know if it's your place to be that person, though. I mean, you're keeping a spreadsheet. You're keeping track of all the buy nothing items. Like, you must have something better to do yourself.

SHONDA: Okay, that's fair. That's totally fair. I know it sounds obsessive, but it started because I gave her a box of my daughter's baby clothes back in December. And then two weeks later, I saw the whole lot on eBay, and I was like,! So then I started paying attention, and once you see the pattern, you can't unsee it. And yeah, maybe I got a little too into it with the spreadsheet, but I brew my own beer, Luke. I've got time on Friday nights while the bottles are cooling. But you're right, maybe calling her out publicly makes me look like the crazy neighbor lady with too much time on her hands, instead of making her look like the scammer.

LUKE: Well, it might do both, because it kind of is both, right? She's, I wouldn't say she's a scammer. She's taking what's being given for free. So she's not really doing anything wrong. but morally and ethically, yeah, I guess, especially with a stroller and stuff like that, if the intention was to give that to somebody else in the community that needed it and she flipped it for 300 bucks that she didn't really need, that's not right, but you're not the Facebook police, and I don't know that you want to be the Facebook police, because, I mean, once you're that, you're that forever.

SHONDA: Yeah, you're totally right. I'd be that person forever. Every time something went missing or someone had drama, I'd be the one everyone's someone's, Side-eyes like, oh, here comes Shonda with her receipts. And my husband already thinks I'm too invested in this. He went to bed an hour ago and was like, are you seriously still looking at this? But here's what's eating at me, though. If I don't say anything and I just let it go, doesn't that make me complicit? Like I know what she's doing, I have proof. And I'm just letting her keep taking advantage of people who are trying to do something good. That feels wrong too.

LUKE: Complicit in what, though, what she's doing is not a crime. It's not like you're withholding information or you're going to be, uh, subpoenaed or something to testify against her selling a free stroller. Yeah, I can see where you would have a problem with this. But I think maybe a passive-aggressive post on the Facebook page would be more appropriate here, where you're like, just a reminder, the intention of this group is to give people in our community that need these things to things. So don't sell them on eBay. You know who you are. Without calling her out. that might be a better way to go.

SHONDA: Oh my God, yes, that's actually perfect. Just a general reminder post about the spirit of the group. Maybe throw in a little, we've noticed some items ending up on resale sites without naming names. That way everyone gets the message she knows that I know, but I'm not the villain who publicly dragged her. And honestly, if she keeps doing it after that, then whatever. At least I said something. Luke, this is why I called. I needed someone to talk me down from posting my whole spreadsheet with screenshots at one in the morning on a Friday night.

LUKE: Well, good. I'm glad that I could help you solve this issue. That seems like a reasonable way to handle it. It's still mildly douchebaggy, the passive aggressiveness of it. But it's better than calling somebody out in front of all of their community and peers for doing something shady. That's a little bit narkey, you know, and you don't want to be that. Nobody wants to be that. If she keeps continues to do it over and over and over again, maybe start a new page and don't invite her to it.

SHONDA: Oh, that's brilliant. Just quietly start a new group and only invite the people who are actually in it for the right reasons. Although knowing Denise, she'd probably find it within a week and request to join. But yeah, you're right. I don't want to be the narc. I've got to live next to this woman. Our driveways are like 15 feet apart. The passive aggressive post keeps the peace, but still sends the message.

LUKE: Yep. And if you start a new group and she requests to join, just don't approve the request. That's all. It'll be your group. So you'll have say over who gets to join and who doesn't. And if she has a problem with that, you know, you can let her know on the aside, hey, this is, you're the reason I started this new group. I don't want you in it. And here's my spreadsheet. But don't show that to the world or, or you're going to probably just make life worse for yourself.

SHONDA: Exactly. And honestly, if she's got a problem with it, she can take it up with me in person instead of hiding behind a screen. I'd love to see her try to explain herself face to face. But you're right, I don't need to make a big public scene out of it. I'll just post that little reminder tomorrow morning when I'm not running on three hours of sleep and a case of IPA.

LUKE: All right, well, thank you for the call. We've got to go to a commercial break, so is there anything else you'd like to say to the audience before we hang up?

SHONDA: Just that if you're in a buy-nothing group, actually use the stuff or give it to someone who needs it. Don't be a Denise. And thanks, Luke. You seriously just saved me from making a huge mistake at one in the morning. I appreciate you.

LUKE: Well, I appreciate you too. You know what I always say. Don't be a Denise. And now, ladies and gentlemen, we have to take a small break for a word from our sponsors. Look, I'm not a financial advisor. I'm a guy with a microphone and a dog. But the folks at Crypto No asked me to tell you about their new decentralized investment platform, and I legally have to read this part. Past performance does not guarantee future results. This is not financial advice. And if you invest your rent money, you deserve exactly what happens next. Crypto No lets you trade over 400 digital currencies, including three that were invented this morning, and one that's just a picture of my dog. The app features a real-time portfolio tracker with a built-in panic button that just plays ocean sounds when your balance drops. Crypto, no! Fortune favors the bold, but it does not return their calls. Fortune favors the bold. Okay, next up here we've got Clarence on the line. Clarence, welcome to the show.

How can we help you tonight, sir? Hey, Luke. Yeah. I've been sitting here at my kitchen table thinking I might be turning into an asshole, and I'm not sure when it happened. Well, that's a serious problem that affects millions of Americans every year. But in my experience, people that are assholes usually don't think about themselves being assholes. So what's going on that makes you think that way? I was at the hardware store earlier tonight. Guy I've known 15 years tried to talk to me about the wind picking up. And I just said, yeah, and walked off. And Luke, the look on his face. like I'd slapped him or something. And I keep thinking about it because I do that all the time now. I run a plumbing business, three guys, and I've always prided myself on being straight with people. Well, I don't think not wanting to engage in small talk about the weather with people while you're doing something else makes you an asshole. It doesn't sound like you said anything rude or mean or asshole-ish to the guy. You just didn't want to engage at that moment and that's okay. Yeah, but it's not. not just that one time. That's what I'm saying. My wife Connie, I watched her this afternoon at the mailbox with the neighbours, just chatting easy about nothing. And people light up around her. And I'm realizing I've been doing this for years. I tell myself it's because I'm honest, I'm efficient, I tell people what's wrong with their pipes and what it'll cost. No games. But maybe I've just been using that as an excuse to not actually connect with anybody. That could be, or it could just be your actual person. which is also okay. But if you're feeling like you're missing out on human connections with people and you want that, then you can make a conscious effort to be more social with them. Only if it's something that you want to do, though. There's not a right or wrong answer here either. You don't have to be a social butterfly or a conversationalist if you don't want to be. That's perfectly okay. I mean, I appreciate people that can be short and don't have to have those conversations. Sometimes I want to be conversational. It's all right to be more than one thing, and it can depend on how you're feeling on any given day. As long as you're not being actively rude or mean to people, I don't see a problem, whichever way you want to be. You're right, and I hear you. But here's the thing that's eating at me. I've been telling myself it's just my personality for 40 years. And tonight I'm sitting here with my poker charts. asleep upstairs. And I'm asking myself if I've mistaken being cold for being honest. Like, when did I decide that efficiency was more important than making someone feel seen? That guy at the hardware store, he wasn't trying to waste my time. No, he wasn't trying to waste your time, but he was wasting your time. And you didn't want to engage with him, and that's all right. But if you don't like the way you're feeling about how you've been reacting to people, you can change that anytime you want. You can make it a point tomorrow. if you see that guy at the hardware store or anybody at any store, to take a few moments and make them feel seen. Yeah, yeah, I could do that. But Luke, what if I've already done the damage? I mean, 15 years of this guy seeing me around town and I've probably done the same thing a hundred times. Well, then it makes it all the more meaningful when you actually make a concerted effort to show him some attention. People notice when that happens. happens when you're actually putting forth the effort to connect with them. And they appreciate it, especially if it's coming from a place of an unexpected nature. Like if you've been short with him for 15 years and then suddenly you take five minutes to actually hear what he has to say to you, maybe make a new friend. But I think he's going to appreciate that. Also, if you've been short with this guy for 15 years, he wouldn't have tried to talk to you at the hardware store again. Like, if the damage was done, it would. would have been done a while ago. That's a good point. You did try to talk to me tonight. I hadn't thought about it that way. Well, sir, the fact that you're even thinking that you might be an asshole kind of makes you not an asshole. And if you need to change the way that you interface with the world and you want to be more open towards people, you have every possibility to do that. All you've got to do is make the effort and try. And it'll be painful because people are stupid. And people are a pain in the ass, and they will waste your time. But people are also the greatest thing ever. Some of them. And if you catch somebody on the right day, you can make new friends and learn new things and have that human connection, which is maybe important and maybe not. Depends on what you're looking for out of your own life. You're right. People are stupid and they're also the greatest thing ever. I think that's what Connie figured out a long time ago that I'm just now getting to. She doesn't seem to struggle with it. She just knows when to give people those five minutes and when to move on. Yeah, and everybody is, everybody's different and everybody's different on any given day. So one day you might have a conversation with somebody and they're open and welcoming and interesting. And then another day, they might be having a bad day and take it out on you or corner you in a place you don't want to be and not let you leave and try to, you know, suck any emotional support they can out of you. And you will learn the difference when somebody is trying to authentically connect with you and when somebody is trying to use you as a free therapist. And you can end the conversation whenever you want to end the conversation. Yeah, I can see that. I guess what I'm realizing is I've been ending the conversation before it even starts. Like I decided a long time ago that most conversations weren't worth having. So I just cut them off at. the nays. Yeah, I mean, I do that a lot too, not always, because most conversations aren't worth having, but there are some conversations that really are. There are some, you know, conversations you have at a gas station that can change the course of your life. And you can't get to those conversations if you stop them all before they start. So I would say ease into it. You don't have to suddenly become a gregarious person that wants to talk to everybody. But, you know, try one person a day and see how that goes. And if you're enjoying it, then Maybe ramp it up a little. All right. Norm, welcome to the show. What's going on, Norm? How can we help you? Luke, hey, thanks for taking my call. So I'm sitting here in my truck outside the Elks Lodge in Denver, been out here about 40 minutes now with the heat cranked up. And I just watched something that's got me all twisted around inside. You know when you make a decision you think is the right one, like the smart thing to do, and then months later you're sitting there wondering if you're actually just a coward? So here's the thing. Well, generally, I try not to be a coward, but I think I know what you're talking about. What is the thing? Okay, so six months ago, my regional manager at the pest control company offers me a supervisor position. Good money, better benefits. The whole deal. And I turned it down. Now I turned it down because my best friend Derek, we've been working together for eight years, roping houses, doing termite inspections, the whole nine yards. What about Derek made you turn it down? Well, I knew if I took it. that job I'd be his boss, and I've seen what that does to people. My cousin, Jennifer, she got promoted at the car dealership, where she and her husband both worked, and within a year their marriage was a disaster. She's telling him what to do all day. He's resenting her. They can't leave work at work. Derek and me, we've been tight for almost a decade. We roped together. We know each other's rhythms.

LUKE: And now, ladies and gentlemen, We're going to have to take another small break for a word from our sponsors. I used to sleep on a rolled up horse blanket. I'm not saying that for sympathy. I'm not saying that for sympathy. I'm saying it. I'm not saying that for sympathy. I'm saying it because Pillow forever asked me to establish a before state, and that's mine. Pillow Forever is a memory foam pillow that remembers your head shapes so you don't have to. It's got cooling gel, bamboo fiber, and a 30-night risk-free trial, which means you can sleep on it for a month and then send it back, and someone in a warehouse has to deal with that. Every pillow forever comes in a box that's too small, which is part of the experience. You open it, and it slowly expands like a major documentary. My dog tried to fight it. Pillow forever. You deserve better than a horse blanket. Come on. All right. Welcome back to the show. Next up on the line we've got, um, Carla. Carla, returning caller. Welcome back to the show. How can we help you today?

CARLA: So I called you a few weeks back about that whole engagement dinner thing where I got called cheap over the tip situation.

LUKE: Yeah, I remember that when you were being cheap. What's going on in your life today?

CARLA: Real great, thanks. So I took your advice honestly, and I started saying no to people at work. Small stuff at first. Karen asked me to cover a shift swap, and I just said I couldn't do it.

LUKE: Okay, and how's that been working out for you?

CARLA: Well, that part went fine. Karen was totally cool about it. found someone else in like 10 minutes. But then Tuesday, my coworker Denise, asked if I could drive her truck down to Tucson to pick up some equipment because her license is suspended. I said no. And now the whole Ranger station is acting like I killed somebody's dog.

LUKE: Yeah, well, when you change your personality and start sticking up for yourself, people rebel against that a little bit. They'll get used to it. If you couldn't do it, if you didn't want to do it, then you didn't have to. And if they have a problem with it, they're going to have to deal with that.

CARLA: I mean, I know how this sounds, but it's not even that I didn't want to help. It's that Denise has had her license suspended three times in two years. She keeps getting DUIs and then asking people to bail her out of the consequences. And I'm the bad guy for not driving four hours round trip on my day off. So she doesn't have to deal with her own mess.

LUKE: Nope, you're not the bad guy. It's perfectly acceptable to say no to somebody. If you can't or don't want to do whatever is they're asking. And if your workplace has a problem with it or people at the Ranger Station or whatever, they can go fuck themselves.

CARLA: Honestly, I wish it was that simple. But here's the thing. Denise is the one who always brings in the donuts on Fridays. And now she's stopped.

LUKE: Oh shit. She stopped bringing the donuts? That's fucking terrible. Now what are you going to do? There's no donuts in the Ranger Station? Oh my God. You've really ruined the whole operation. Stop it. Who cares? Let her not bring the donuts. Bring the donuts yourself if you want a donut. Who cares?

CARLA: You're right. I know you're right. But it's not just the donuts. She also does the schedule coordination with the other stations. And now she's being real passive about it. Like, she'll wait until the last possible minute to confirm things. And it makes my job harder because I can't plan my week.

LUKE: Well, I can't tell you how to interact with every single person that you work with. If she's being an asshole, she's being an asshole, and you can talk to her boss about that. It has nothing to do with you or your ability to say no to things you don't want to do, you're doing the right thing by sticking up for yourself. And you don't know any apologies to anybody. And however Denise is responding to that is Denise's problem.

CARLA: Real great. That actually helps. I've been sitting here all night eating sunflower seeds in the dark thinking I screwed everything up. My mom called earlier and I didn't even answer because I knew she'd tell me I should have just helped Denise to keep the peace. That's what she always says.

LUKE: Keeping the piece is bullshit. It's not your job to keep the piece. Your job is to keep track of your own life and your own time and your own calendar and your own work. Anything other than that is everybody else's problem. So it's not on you to keep any piece anywhere. You just do what you need to do for yourself and let the rest of the world deal with that.

CARLA: I mean, that's the thing, though. I spend half my time alone out in the field doing wildlife photography surveys and the other half, I'm stuck with these same eight people in a station the size of a double wide. There's nowhere to hide. If Denise is pissed, I feel it every single day. If Karen's having a bad day, we all know about it.

LUKE: Yeah, and that's not your problem. That's working with others. And that's going to happen anywhere you go at any time in your life. It was like that in high school. It'll be like that in the workplace. It'll be like that in the fucking retirement home when you get there. So that's just life. And it's on them. If it makes your life uncomfortable and you don't want to work with those people leave. But otherwise, I don't know what you want me to tell you. You're doing the right thing. It's not on you to keep the peace. And anybody that's being a brat is being a brat. And that's not on you.

CARLA: You're right. Honestly, I just needed to hear someone say that who wasn't going to follow it up with, but maybe you could have handled it better. Or, you know how Denise gets. I've been doing this for six years. Always saying yes. Always being the one who covers shit. always driving people stuff around. And the one time I say no, I'm difficult.

LUKE: Yeah, you've stopped being the dumping ground for everybody else's shit. And that's how you should be. That's how you should stand up for yourself and protect your own time. And if people are going to get pissy about that afterwards, it's on them. They're the ones that are acting like children. And if it becomes too uncomfortable for you to continue working there, then move on. But otherwise, just, you know, be go in there, do your job, be nice to people, but you don't have to keep the peace or manage Denise's emotions or any of that. That's unreasonable to expect of anybody. And it does make sense that people are going to respond to you once you've changed your demeanor and you've stopped giving them what they want. But it's not on you to manage them in that way.

CARLA: Real great. That's what I needed. I know how this sounds, but I think I've been so worried about being the person everyone can count on that I forgot I'm allowed to count on myself first. I'm going back in Monday, and I'm just going to do my job.

LUKE: Good. That's what you should do. That's all you're there to do is your job. And anything else is extra. If you can help somebody out, if you want to, go ahead. But don't let them expect that of you because fuck them. That's what I say. And next up, we've got Chip. Chip, welcome to the show. What's going on in your life, sir?

CHIP: Luke, man, okay. So three hours ago, I got an email from a lawyer in Guatemala, saying my eight-year-old daughter might have been stolen from her birth mother. And I'm sitting in a laundromat at midnight watching her soccer uniform go, around in the dryer trying to figure out what the hell I'm supposed to do with this information.

LUKE: Aren't you the guy that called in the other day and said that your daughter wasn't yours because you thought your wife cheated on you?

CHIP: No, no, no. That was not me, man. I have never called this show before in my life. This is my daughter, like, she is mine. We adopted her from Guatemala when she was six months old. This is a whole different thing.

LUKE: Well, honestly, I wouldn't trust any letter that came in from a lawyer in Guatemala. That doesn't sound on the up and up right on the surface. So I wouldn't worry too much about it. I assume you've got all the adoption paperwork and such.

CHIP: Yeah, we got all the paperwork. But look, there is a photograph attached to this email. And this woman has the exact same crooked smile as my daughter. Like the exact same one. The lawyer is representing 12 families down there. And they have documentation of the agency we used was part of this whole network that was paying people to take kids from poor villages.

LUKE: Well, that's horrible. And I think that's absolutely a real thing that happens. But I would be very suspect of any. communication coming from Guatemala, from lawyers or police or otherwise. It sounds like you have the adoption papers. You have the child in the United States. And it's an awful thing if she was stolen from her mother. But right now, you're the only parents she knows, right? I don't know how you can handle that situation the best. It's definitely very unfortunate for the birth mother, if that is her And maybe you can think about setting up some sort of visitation or something like that if you want.

LUKE: But a picture doesn't prove anything, especially today, because you could give a picture to AI and say, show me this person's birth mother in Guatemala. And it'll make somebody with the same smile. So you can't trust any of that information.

MIKE: Okay, but Luke, this is not some random scam email. This law firm has a website. They have been in the news. There are articles about this in actual newspapers. And my sister, Deb, she told us eight years ago we were doing it the wrong way by not going through a United States agency. But we wanted to save money in the agency we used. Made it so easy. I'm suspiciously easy now that I think about it. They had us in and out in four months when everyone said it would take years.

LUKE: Okay. So if you feel like you've adopted a stolen child, what do you want to do about that?

MIKE: I don't know, man. That's why I'm calling you. Do I tell her now? Or do I wait until she's older?

LUKE: Well, she's only eight years old. So even if you do tell her, she's probably not going to understand. Does she know that she's adopted? Obviously, she knows she's Guatemalan. In America, she must have had questions about that.

MIKE: Yeah, she knows she's adopted. We have always been honest about that. We told her we picked her special. All that stuff. But Luke, This is different. This is not some beautiful adoption story anymore. This is her mother did not give her up. Her mother had her taken. And this woman in the photo, she is holding a sign with a date on it. And my daughter's birth name that we were told by the agency.

LUKE: Well, what do you think about that? I mean, you obviously have been caring for this child for eight years. You've got her living in your house, going to school here. Do you feel like something should be done with the birth mother? Like, would you consider giving your daughter back or sending her back to Guatemala? What do you think?

MIKE: No, no, Luke. I am not sending her back. She is my kid. She does not even speak Spanish. She has never been back to Guatemala. Her whole life is here. Her soccer team. Her friends. Her school.

LUKE: Right. And I'm sure her birth mother understands that, right? What does the letter say? What is the letter asking for?

MIKE: The lawyer is asking if we want to participate in some kind of mediation process, where the birth families can meet the adoptive families and figure out what to do going forward. They are talking about possible restitution, possible visitation arrangements. They are saying some families are working out ways for the kids to know their birth families. But Luke, my girlfriend does not even know about this email yet. is at work right now doing a 12-hour shift. And I am sitting here at the laundromat at midnight watching soccer uniforms go around and around trying to figure out what the hell I am supposed to do. Do I wake her up with this? Do I wait?

LUKE: Well, I wouldn't wake her up with it. I'd wait until everybody is up and ate and fresh and sharp for that conversation. But I think you need to have that talk with your girlfriend. decide what you're okay with and what you're not. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to set up visitation. Though restitution, I don't think so. I mean, you've already paid the fees. You've paid for schooling and stuff. But you didn't steal the child. So that restitution is not on you. You haven't done anything wrong to deserve to pay restitution. But visitation, that's a different thing. And I think if I were that eight-year-old kid and I was given up for adoption or stolen I would probably want to meet at least my birth mother. You can also talk to the birth mother and see what it is that she wants to do. Because obviously, after eight years, she doesn't even know this child. And she's almost certainly getting a better life in America than she would in Guatemala.

MIKE: Yeah, but Luke, that's the thing. The lawyer said some of these kids were taken from their mothers right after they were born. They were told their babies died. And now they're seeing photos of these kids alive and well in the United States. And the mothers are saying they want their kids back.

LUKE: Well, yeah, I bet they are. But just because they're saying they want their kids back doesn't mean they're going to get their kids back. You know, the kids in America. And I doubt very much the mother is going to come to America and steal the kid back. That would probably be the only way. If you were open to visitation or to, I don't know, on adoption, then that's a different story. But if you're not, I think you've got all the paperwork you need. I assume that the kid is a U.S. citizen. They can't just be taken back to Guatemala. I don't think it works that way. Talk to your girlfriend, figure out what you're okay with. Get yourself a lawyer and figure out what your rights are.

MIKE: You are right. You are right. I need to talk to her first. But Luke, here is what is killing me. My sister, Deb. She told us eight years ago we should have gone through a United States agency. She said the Guatemala thing felt sketchy. And I told her she was being paranoid. I told her we did our research. The agency had all the right paperwork.

LUKE: Well, that may be so, but you can't go back to the past and change what you did. You went through the Guatemalan agency, and you got the paperwork from them. And you're going to need a lawyer to look at that paperwork and make sure it's all up and up. Take whatever steps you need to do to get the paperwork on the up and up. I'm sure that there's a pathway, but it all starts with the conversation about what you want to do and what's even being asked for, because nobody's asked for the kid to be returned yet, right?

MIKE: No, not yet. But Luke, what if they do? What if this lawyer comes back and says this woman wants her daughter return to Guatemala? What do I do then? Because I love this kid more than anything in the world.

LUKE: Well, then you. You fight for it in court and you talk to your lawyer and you figure out what your rights are. But right now that hasn't happened. It might not happen. So it's not worth getting yourself riled up about quite yet. My recommendation is, you know, get some sleep, get yourself clear, talk it through, and then find yourself a lawyer and figure out what the plan is from there.

MIKE: Okay. Okay, you are right. I am spinning out here. The dryer just stopped anyway. I need to get home before my girlfriend gets off shift. I just look one more thing.

LUKE: Yeah, what's that?

MIKE: Do I tell my daughter? I mean, she is eight years old. She knows she is adopted. We have always been honest about that. But do I sit her down and say, hey, there is a woman in Guatemala who might be your birth mother, and she says, you were stolen. Or do I wait until we know more?

LUKE: No, I think you definitely wait until you know more, because, uh, Even though this all looks legit, there's a good chance that it's not legit. And until this is all proven and worked out, there's no reason that she has to know. Nothing's actually happened yet.

MIKE: You are right. You are right. I'm getting ahead of myself. I just keep looking at that photograph and her smile is exactly the same. I mean exactly. The same crooked tooth on the left side. The same dimple.

LUKE: Yeah, and it's incredibly easy to make a fake photograph like that. So don't look at it as fact until you know it's fact, and it's been reviewed by a lawyer that specializes in this kind of work.

MIKE: Oh, man. I did not even think about that. You think someone could be running a scam? Like they found our name somehow when they are trying to shake us down for money.

LUKE: Absolutely. Yes.

MIKE: Jesus. Okay. That actually makes me feel a little better, which is weird to say. I mean, not better that someone would do that, but better that there is another explanation besides my whole life being built on something terrible.

LUKE: Yeah, you don't have enough information yet to make an informed decision, and I would address anything that you do have as highly suspect right now until it's been reviewed by a lawyer.

LUKE: If later on you learn that this is true, that's a different story, and you can deal with it then through the appropriate legal channels. But today, there's not. nothing you can do. Today you don't even know if it's real. So get some sleep and then talk to the girlfriend about it. And when the time comes, when you know the facts, then you can think about if it's time to tell the kid about it or not.

CALLER: Yeah. Yeah, you are right. I need to talk to my girlfriend first. She is going to lose her mind, but we need to figure this out together.

LUKE: Okay, well, I wish you the best of luck. That's really a terrifying story. And I hope that it all that there was no child theft there because that's pretty rough. Next up we've got Lorraine. Lorraine, you're our last call her the night. Thanks for calling in. How can we help you?

LORRAINE: Oh gosh. Luke, thanks for taking my call. I know it's late. I'm calling because I'm sitting here in the back of my grooming salon with a client's Pomeranian, and I cannot stop thinking about what happened at church this morning. And I need someone to tell me if I've been doing something terrible all these years without knowing it. So this morning, at the potluck breakfast, I brought my chilaquiles. Everyone loves them. I make them every time. And I was talking to Pastor Mike's wife, Linda. Just chatting. And somehow it came up that I don't actually eat breakfast myself. Haven't in years.

LUKE: So not eating breakfast is this terrible thing that you think you're doing?

LORRAINE: Well, that's the thing. I never thought it was. I feel better not eating breakfast. I have my coffee. I'm fine until lunch. I've been doing it for probably 15 years. But Linda looked at me like I just told her I kick puppies, Luke. She said, spent 20 minutes telling me I'm ruining my metabolism, that I'm setting a bad example for the youth group, that breakfast is the most important meal of the day and skipping it is basically self-harm. And now I'm sitting here at midnight, wondering if she's right, or if we've all just been completely sold a bill of goods by cereal companies.

LUKE: Yeah, I don't think she's right. There's lots of people that don't eat breakfast, and I honestly don't think it matters when you eat, as long as you're taking in the right amount of nutrients and calories. I think the timing of it is very much. much marketing based. And I'm not a nutritionist. And it's hard for me to believe a nutritionist because I've seen nutrition information change so much over the years. Like every five or 10 years, we're completely flipping it around. And I just don't buy it from a logical perspective. I think if you're hungry in the morning or if you're in the habit of eating in the morning, then eat in the morning. And if you don't get hungry and your lifestyle supports you starting your first that. There's lots of people that intentionally fast in the morning to kickstart their metabolism.

LORRAINE: Oh, thank goodness. Luke. That's exactly what I thought. I mean, I'm not trying to fast or do anything trendy. I just genuinely don't feel hungry in the morning and when I do force myself to eat breakfast, I feel sluggish all day. But Linda made me feel like I was being irresponsible. Like I was lying to people by bringing food I don't even eat myself.

LUKE: No, you're just doing a kind thing and sharing a part of your yourself that you know people like. And that's cool. But you're not doing a terrible thing, and I don't think you're hurting your body in any way. As long as throughout the day, you're getting enough calories and the right mix of nutrients.

LORRAINE: That's such a relief to hear. I think what really got under my skin was the way she said I was setting a bad example for the youth group. Like the teenagers are watching what time of day I eat, and it's going to damage them somehow. I teach the high schoolers on Wednesday nights, and I love those kids, and the idea that I'm hurting coffee instead of eggs in the morning made me feel awful. But that doesn't make any sense, does it? They don't even know when I eat.

LUKE: No, it doesn't make any sense. It's, I would say, untrue. It doesn't matter when you start eating. And teenagers don't care when you eat. Even if they were watching you, they're not modeling their lives after what you do. At least not at breakfast. At breakfast, they're looking for the Pop-Tarts and the cereal. But it makes sense that a preacher's wife would be judgmental. and push her own views on you that she's taken directly from the breakfast brands, Quaker Oats, and them. They spent a lot of money to make people think that way.

LORRAINE: You know, that's exactly it. She kept saying everyone knows, and it's just basic health, but when I really think about it, where did we all learn that? Probably from commercials and boxes of corn flakes. And I actually heard Norm earlier tonight talking about his friend Derek becoming a supervisor and turning into a jerk. And I completely disagree with what you told him, Luke. I think Norm absolutely should feel bad because he knew Derek better than anyone. And he should have seen that coming.

LUKE: Well, Norm didn't call you to ask you for your advice. He called me because he trusts my advice more. And my advice is more reasonable than yours. It's not his job to protect the entire company's culture from Derek. He didn't want to take the job. He didn't want to be over Derek. And he didn't know that Derek was going to get the job after him.! Didn't do anything wrong there. And maybe he could have taken the job before Derek got to it, but he didn't want it. It's not, why would he have to do that? And why am I explaining myself to you? You don't even know if you should eat breakfast or not.

LORRAINE: Oh, gosh. You're right, Luke. I'm sorry. I don't know why I just jumped in on Norm like that. That was rude of me. I think I'm just all wound up from this morning, and now I'm second guessing everything, including things that have nothing to do with me.

LUKE: Yeah, maybe you're hungry and you should get some breakfast.

LORRAINE: Well, shoot, now you're doing it too. I'm fine, Luke. I had a perfectly good lunch and dinner today. I think I'm just tired and sitting here in the dark with this Pomeranian who keeps making little wheezy sounds. And I can't stop replaying Linda's face when I told her. Like I confessed to something shameful? And the worst part is, I brought the chillikiles because I wanted to contribute something nice. Something people would enjoy and now it feels tainted somehow.

LUKE: Yeah, it's not. It's just Linda's a bitch. And that's pretty normal in the circles that you're circling in. So don't worry about it. You're not doing anything wrong. Eat when you want to eat and keep your opinions to yourself in the future, okay?

LORRAINE: You're absolutely right. I need to just let this go and stop letting Linda live rent-free in my head. Oh gosh, I just said that, didn't I? I'm sorry. That's one of those internet phrases. What I mean is, I need to stop thinking about her. The Chilicillies were good, people enjoyed them, I eat or don't eat for breakfast is nobody's business but mine.

LUKE: No, it's not. And do you enjoy the rest of your day. And don't let Linda bring you down, all right? Thanks to everybody for tuning in tonight. That's the end of our show. And I hope you have a wonderful, well, you're probably going to hear this in the morning. So have a wonderful morning, all right? Good night.