LUKE: All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. This is Luke, and you're listening to Luke at the Roost. It's the late night call-in radio show where you can give me a call about whatever's going on in your life, and I'll give you the very best advice that I can. Today is Monday, March 16th, it's about 1.30 a.m. And let's check in with Devin and see how he's doing today. Hey, Devin, good job on the coffee this morning, buddy. proud of you. You did a great thing there, and we're all very excited that you're going to get to stay on the radio show for another day. So congratulations, and what would you like to tell the radio listeners today?

DEVIN: Oh, thanks. I appreciate that. I guess I just say thanks for listening. I don't really know what to say. This is still pretty new for me, so if you have questions or want us to look something up or whatever, I'm here. I'm trying to make this show good. So, yeah, thanks for calling in and being part of it. That's all I got.

LUKE: All right, thanks, Devin. Well, we're trying to make the show good, so let's get to our callers here. This evening, first up, we've got Wendell. Wendell, welcome to the show. Where are you at tonight?

WENDELL: Hey, Luke. I'm in Deming. Just got off my shift at the warehouse, sitting here at my kitchen table with a beer. Appreciate you taking my call, man.

LUKE: All right, well, welcome to the show. What would you like to talk about tonight?

WENDELL: So I've been seeing this woman, right? Met her about two months ago at the Sonic over on Pine Street. Really great, actually. Then last week I'm at her place, and I see she's got this framed photo on her bookshelf. It's my brother Marcus.

LUKE: Man, you know what's really weird? It's pretty much everybody that calls the show knows somebody named Marcus. I used to know a guy named Marcus. We called him All In Marcus, because at our weekly poker game, Marcus was always the one to go all in, no matter what. So we called him All in Marcus. One day, Marcus wrote down the rules of the poker game. this. Somebody was, I don't know, being argumentative about who got the pot or something like that. So we came to the poker game and Marcus had this like, I don't remember if it was laminated or not, but he had sheets of rules. And at the end of the rules, he had to make sure that all of the rules were agreed upon. But he spelled upon like A space P-A-W-N. All the rules agreed upon. That's my Marcus story. What's up with your girlfriend and the first. framed picture of your brother Marcus. Did you ask her about it?

WENDELL: Oh, I asked her about it all right. She gets all flustered, says it's just a coincidence that she used to date a guy named Marcus back in Albuquerque. But here's the thing. This ain't just any Marcus. This is my Marcus. Golden boy of the family, works for the state, drives a damn Prius, the whole nine yards. And this woman? She's got his picture in a frame, Luke.

LUKE: Yeah, that's a little bit strange, a little uncomfortable. But he's not with her anymore. She's dating you, right? So what's the big deal? And who knows, maybe your brother Marcus did a little bit of modeling on the side, and he got himself in the TJ Max catalog or something like that.

WENDELL: Luke, no, you're not hearing me. I showed her a picture of my Marcus on my phone, my actual brother, and she went white as a sheet, started stammering about how she didn't know, how she had no idea we were related.

LUKE: Well, she probably didn't know. Well, how would she know that you were related? You think she's just scoping out each person in the family to date them one at a time and see which one's the best?

WENDELL: That's what I thought at first, right? Just a weird coincidence. But then I started thinking about it. She asked me a lot of questions early on. Where I grew up, what my family does, if I had siblings. And here's the kicker. She suggested we go to the Deming flea market next weekend. Marcus loves that flea market.

LUKE: All right, so, I mean, it's a little bit weird. I'll give you that. It's a little strange, but I don't know. You like the girl? I think that seems like something you could probably get over. Have you talked to Marcus about it?

WENDELL: He gets all quiet, then he's like, Wendell, I need you to drop this. Drop this? Luke, my brother doesn't talk like that. Marcus explains everything.

LUKE: Okay, well, tell me about the girl. How into the girl are you?

WENDELL: I mean, honestly, I liked her a lot. She's funny. She's into the same shows I watch. She makes these breakfast burritos that are incredible. We were having a good time. But now, every time I think about her, I'm thinking about that picture frame and Marcus telling me to drop it. Like, what does that even mean? Drop it.

DEVIN: So I look this up and stalking behavior sometimes includes trying to get close to the target through family members or friends. Like, it's actually a documented tactic. The fact that she asked all those questions about your family early on and then it turns out she dated Marcus. That's not nothing. And if Marcus is telling you to drop it instead of explaining, that's actually pretty concerning, if that makes sense.

LUKE: Yeah, it's a little bit concerning. It's a little bit weird. Your best course of action is probably to drop it and move on to another girl, unless you're really into her. I think you probably need a little more to go on than you like the same shows and you like her burritos.

WENDELL: Yeah, but Luke, that's the thing. I can't drop it because I went back through my phone last night, and the first time she texted me, it was her who reached out first after we met. She asked for my number at the Sonic, said she thought I seemed interesting. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but now I'm wondering if she knew exactly who I was when she walked up to me.

DEVIN: I looked it up, and the CDC lists approaching or showing up in places like the victim's home or workplace as an actual stalking tactic. The Deming flea market thing, if Marcus goes there regularly and she's suggesting it, that could be her trying to engineer a run-in with him. That's a recognized pattern, actually.

LUKE: All right, well, it sounds like you got a stalker on your tail. I think it's a little bit weird. to talk to Marcus a little bit more and figure out what is going on there and what kind of crazy she is. It doesn't sound like she's into your relationship for you, though, so maybe you should just stop calling her back and let that one go.

WENDELL: Yeah, you're right. I know you're right. I just, I keep thinking about how normal everything felt before I saw that picture. Like, what else did I miss?

DEVIN: So, according to the CDC, stalking tactics. can include using intermediaries or approaching through family connections. The fact that she initiated contact, asked detailed family questions, and then Marcus is refusing to explain anything, those are all concerning patterns. Also, stalkers often researched their targets beforehand, so her knowing exactly who Wendell was at that Sonic isn't paranoia. So I found something. About 80% percent, percent of stalking cases actually involves someone the victim knows, not strangers. And one of the warning science experts list is when someone shows intense interest really early on, like asking detailed questions about your life and family before you've really gotten to know them. That's actually a documented red flag, if that makes sense.

LUKE: Okay, well, you've got it straight from Devin, and he seems to know that this chick is a stalker, and she's stalking your brother, and she's using you to get to him. So best to leave that chick alone. I find odd in this whole conversation is that the CDC is putting out the guidance for stalkers. Like, is stalking a disease? Or is being stalked a disease? That's strange that it's the CDC that is handling these reports.

WENDELL: Thanks, Luke. Appreciate it, man. I guess I needed to hear somebody else say it out loud.

LUKE: All right, glad we could help. Get away from that chick before something bad happens. It doesn't sound good. It does not sound good. And next up, we've got Alia.

LUKE: Leah, welcome to the show. How are you tonight? What's going on? What do you think about stalkers being reported to the CDC?

LEAH: Hey, Luke, I'm all right. Look, the CDC thing is wild, but I called about something else. I caught my roommate in a hotel room doing some seriously weird age play stuff on what was supposed to be a business trip. And now we live together and neither of us can look at each other.

LUKE: Um, okay, that's weird. It's disconcerting. What do you mean by weird age play stuff? I don't think that I like where this is going, but can you fill us in on some details here?

LEAH: So I work with him at the shop. He's also a mechanic, and he told everyone he was going to Phoenix for this Part Supplier Conference. I had to drop something off at the hotel for my boss, Karen. Totally random, and I see him in the lobby. I'm about to say, hey, when I notice he's dressed like a little kid, like overalls that are too short, a backpack with cartoon characters, the whole thing. And there's this woman with him talking to him like he's five years old, patting his head, and he's just into it.

LUKE: Okay. You know, I've seen some of that before. I went to, it's called a munch. Do you know what a munch is? It's like a meetup in a public place, like an apple bees or something like that, for people in the fetish community, and they're just kind of hanging out in a non-sexual environment. And I would say a good percentage of them, like maybe 40 to 50 percent of them, the people there were into like wearing diapers and doing the age play stuff. It was, it was weird to see, but I don't think anybody's getting hurt there. I would be more concerned about the woman that was entertaining it than the dude that wanted to dress up in his Oshkoshes.

LEAH: Yeah, I mean, I get that people are into what they're into. I'm not trying to kinkshame the guy. But Luke, the problem is, we share a two-bedroom apartment. We carpool to work. I see him every single day, and now every time I look at him, I just picture him in those tiny overalls getting his head patted, and he's acting like nothing happened.

LUKE: So I look this up. Age play is actually pretty common in kink communities. It's like a role play thing where adults take on different age roles. It's consensual and not illegal or anything. The psychology research says it's usually about power dynamics or stress relief, not actual attraction to kids, if that makes sense.

LEAH: Okay, well, I don't really understand how that's that would relieve anybody's stress. It seems more stressful for everybody involved, but, you know, it takes all kinds.

LUKE: And it, I mean, people are into role-playing in all sorts of different ways. They go to Comic-Cons and dress up like Batman, or they play role-playing games. I don't, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. But it is weird, and I mean, I can see why you feel a little bit uncomfortable, but also, he wasn't doing anything to you. He did his best to keep that away from you. Like, he's not pushing it on you. So, I think, I think it's something that you could get over if you wanted to. So what if he likes to dress up like a Chucky doll?

LEAH: Okay, but here's the thing, and this is what Wendell was doing earlier. Right? You asked him a direct question, and he told you a whole story instead. I'm doing the same thing. The real issue isn't that he's into what he's into. The real issue is he lied about it.

LUKE: How did he lie about it? I mean, he lied about it because he went to a business conference and he was doing it there where he thought he wasn't going to get exposed? You just happened to walk in on him, or is there more to this story that you haven't told us?

LEAH: No, you're right. He didn't owe me an explanation about what he does on his own time. But now he won't even acknowledge that I saw him. Like, I tried to bring it up once, super casual, just to clear the air. And he looked at me like I was crazy and changed the subject. So now I'm the one feeling weird about it when I'm just trying to exist in my own apartment. I can't tell if I'm supposed to pretend I didn't see anything, or if he's gaslighting me into thinking it didn't happen.

LUKE: Well, I mean, put yourself in his tiny shoes. He's probably pretty embarrassed that you caught him dressed up like a little boy. I mean, he was trying to do that where he wouldn't be seen by anybody, and you saw him. So I don't say, I don't think that's lying. He's just trying to not talk about it and pretend it didn't happen. I don't think he's gaslighting you. I think he's just hoping that you let it go and can move on and pretend you didn't see anything.

LEAH: All right, yeah. That's fair. I can see that. But then why do I feel like I'm the one who did something wrong? Like I'm tiptoeing around my own place. Trying not to make it awkward. And he's just going about his business like everything's normal. I guess what I'm asking is, how long do I have to do this dance before it stops being weird?

LUKE: Well, it can stop being weird when you decide it doesn't have to be weird anymore. I mean, it's okay for things to be awkward sometimes. You don't have to never have awkward. That was a strange thing that happened. And I think you could push, talk about it if you really have to. I mean, worst case scenario is you find another roommate, but I think that this is something that you could resolve through discussion. Even if he's trying to put it off, you can say, no, I saw what I saw. You know, I saw you. And we need to talk about this because it feels really weird not addressing it. And I mean, if you're saying that honestly without trying to shame him or embarrass him or rub it in his face, I think probably he would appreciate that and respond well.

LEAH: You know what? You're probably right. I think I've been making it bigger in my head than it needs to be. I can just tell him straight up. Look, I saw what I saw. You do you. But we got to stop acting like ghosts around each other. Appreciate it, Luke.

LUKE: Yeah, no problem. That's a strange thing, but not harmful. And I think you can get through it. And maybe even understand what it is that he's into about it. Try it out yourself. You know, don't knock until you try it. You could dress up like a little boy, too. Next up on the line, we've got Chip. What's going on? What do you think of the last caller's situation?

CHIP: Hey, Luke. Yeah, I caught some of that with Wendell and the girlfriend thing. That's Wildman. Honestly, sounds like she's playing some kind of game, right? Like who just happens to have a photo of their boyfriend's brother and that acts like it's nothing. But listen, I got to give you an update on my situation because things have gone completely sideways since we talked last. So picture this. I'm at home Sunday afternoon, Teresa's at work, and I get a call from my lawyer, the one I hired to verify this whole Guatemala thing, right?

LUKE: Okay, what's the letter say?

CHIP: The lawyer didn't send a letter. He called me, and he's telling me that he's been able to verify some of the information, like the birth mother's identity checks out. The timeline matches up with when we adopted our daughter. And get this, there's documentation from the Guatemalan Adoption Agency that's been flagged in some kind of investigation, like actual legal proceedings happening down there. So it's not a scam. This woman is real, the claim is real. And now my lawyer is saying we need to start thinking about what our legal exposure is here. Because if this adoption was fraudulent, we could be looking at some serious complications. So basically, Guatemala had this massive adoption fraud scandal from the 1960s through 2008, thousands of babies were stolen or coerced from indigenous mothers. The U.S. was aware of fraud as early as the 1980s. Guatemala was the only country in the world doing fully privatized adoptions from 1977 to 2008. And at the peak, one in every hundred Guatemalan babies was being adopted out to foreigners. The whole system got shut down in 2008 because of corruption.

LUKE: If your daughter was adopted during that window, there's a real chance the adoption agency was involved in the investigations. All right. Well, that doesn't sound good at all. I mean, did he elaborate any on what your legal exposure could be there? Because from your perspective, you didn't know anything was wrong, right? You just adopted a baby through an agency that you thought was legitimate. They gave you papers and everything. And it was all in the up and up. And this is the first you're hearing about it many years later. So I don't see what legal trouble you could get in personally. But how? How does that affect your adoption and your child? What comes next? Did he give you any further instructions or any idea what they might be looking for as far as reparations or what they might be looking for as far as reparations or sending the kid back to his birth mother or what?

CHIP: Okay, so he's saying that legally, I'm probably fine. Like I'm not going to get charged with anything because we went through what we thought was a legitimate agency. We had all the paperwork. We didn't know. But here's where it gets messy. He's saying that in some of these cases, families have been pressured to allow contact with the birthmothers. Or in extreme situations, there have been custody challenges. Not common, but it happens.

LUKE: Well, you're already being pressured to allow contact, right? It sounded like the last time you called and Teresa was going to get on a plane and go down there to meet the birth mother. So that might not be such a bad thing. Just letting the birth mother meet the child, I mean, it seems like that's kind of maybe the right thing to do. I don't know what the right thing to do is here, but I don't know that any custody challenge would really hold up. It's kind of hard to say that the kid would be better off in Guatemala now after years of living as a United States citizen and going to school and having a loving family and stuff. I mean, if your household was a problem, then maybe. But I don't think that there could be any realistic argument that custody should change. I think maybe it does make sense, though, to let the kid meet her mom.

CHIP: Okay, but here's the thing. Teresa isn't just talking about meeting her. She's talking about, like packing up our daughter and flying to Guatemala to meet this woman. No lawyers, no plan. Just, here's your kid. Let's all have lunch. And my lawyer is saying that's a terrible idea, because if we do this, that we're basically admitting that we don't have full legal standing. And that could open us up to all kinds of complications. Like, what if the birth mother decides she wants to keep her?

DEVON: So basically, I'm not finding any actual U.S. court cases where a Guatemalan birth mother successfully challenged custody after the adoption was finalized in the U.S. The legal framework, is that once an adoption is completed and recognized by U.S. courts, custody challenges from abroad are extremely difficult. U.S. courts prioritize the child's established life and stability. Your lawyer is probably right. That meeting without legal structure could complicate things, but there's no precedent for a birth mother just taking custody back after years.

LUKE: Yeah, I don't think any court is going to give custody to the birth mother in Guatemala. But I also think it's a very terrible idea, just like the lawyer said, to go to Guatemala. For different reasons, though. I mean, you're just showing up in an area where you know there's fraud and some level of violence and kidnapping going on in general. So it's not really that safe to go into that environment. I think if the birth mother wants to meet the child, then you should make arrangements to bring her to America and meet in a public place where there's no risk of being overrun by, I don't know, whoever with guns and stuff and get getting kidnapped and all that noise. Like, you don't need that. I don't think anybody should be getting on a plane flying to Guatemala over this. I think that's a terrible idea.

CHIP: Right, exactly. That's what I've been trying to tell Teresa, but she's not hearing it. And here's the new development that's got me completely freaked out. I found out yesterday that she already bought the tickets.

LUKE: Well, like I told you last time, if you have to, if you have to protect your family, then file yourself a restraining order and maybe make sure that she can't leave the country with your daughter. Because she can't just leave the country with your daughter if you don't want that to happen. That, I think you do have a legal precedent for.

CHIP: Okay, so picture this. I'm looking at her laptop yesterday because she left it open on the kitchen table. And I see the confirmation email two tickets to Guatemala City leaving Friday. This Friday, look, in four days.

DEVON: So basically, Guatemala is currently at a level three travel advisory from the city. State Department. That's reconsider travel due to crime. They specifically say do not travel to certain zones in Guatemala City for any reason. The advisory was reissued in December 2024 and hasn't changed despite recent gang attacks in January. If she's planning to go, she should at minimum enroll in the smart traveler enrollment program so the embassy knows she's there, if that makes sense. So basically, Luke's right that you can get a court order to prevent her from leaving. But there's also something called the Children's Passport Issuance Alert program. It's free through the State Department. You enroll and they'll contact you if anyone tries to get a passport for your daughter. But that only works if she doesn't already have one. If your daughter already has a passport, you need an emergency custody order before Friday to actually stop them at the border.

LUKE: Yeah, I think you have to do that. I think you have to get one of those emergency orders and prevent that from happening for the safety of your daughter. And if that causes problems Well, that's secondary, right? Because the most important thing here should be the safety of your daughter. And your girlfriend, right? Her safety's on the line, too. You're going into gang territory. It's just a shady situation, and it's not safe to do. And if you're the only one thinking clearly here, then you have to do what you have to do and go to the court and get that order.

CHIP: Big surprise there, right? Teresa's acting like I'm the crazy one for being worried. And our daughters are already as a passport because we took her to Cancun two years ago. So that program Devon's talking about won't help. I confronted Teresa about the tickets last night when she got home from her shift, and she completely lost it on me.

LUKE: Well, you know what? You don't have to involve Teresa in the decision at all. At this point, you just have to go down in the courthouse and get the order and prevent her. I mean, they'll stop her from getting on the plane if it has to go that way. That's the advice that I have to give you because there's really no other option.

CHIP: Okay, so here's where I'm stuck though. If I do that, if I go behind her back and get a court order, our relationship is done, like completely over. She already told me last night that if I try to stop her from doing this, she's leaving me. She said I'm being a coward, that I'm putting my own comfort over doing the right thing for our daughter and that this birth mother deserves to meet her child. And part of me gets that. Luke.

LUKE: Yeah, and some of those things may be true, but it does not matter because the child's safety is the most important thing here. And if she takes the child to Guatemala, then that is actively putting, I mean objectively, actively putting the child in danger. And that's not okay. And honestly, it sounds like your relationship's over anyway. If you guys can't work this thing out between yourselves and you have to go to court to get a court order to prevent her from uncomfortable with. Like there's, there's nothing left in that relationship.

LUKE: You can't stay with that woman. You're right. You're absolutely right. I know you're right. All right, buddy. Well, I'm sorry you're in that situation. It sounds horrible for all involved. And I hope it all works out. Give us a call and let us know what happens. But I've got to move on because we're over time for a word from our sponsors. So hold on just a second. And we'll, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll, listen. listen to meat cube.

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All right. Thank you to MeatCube. And we are back. We're back, baby. And next up on the line, we've got Sheila. Sheila, welcome to the show. What's going on out there tonight? Why are you up so late on a Monday night?

SHEILA: I'm sitting in a truck stop diner in Deming, staring at a cup of coffee that's been cold for 20 minutes. Can't sleep. I've been thinking about this for three days, and I need to say it out loud to someone who isn't going to try to fix it. My husband, David, and I, ran into someone from high school at the Walmart last week. Girl named Monica. We were best friends back in the day. Lost touch after graduation.

LUKE: Okay, well that happens. You lose touch with Why is this an issue?

SHEILA: It's not an issue that we lost touch. We actually reconnected recently, before we saw her at Walmart. The issue is when we ran into her with David there, she acted like she'd never met me before in her life.

LUKE: All right, do you look physically different than you did in high school? Is it potentially a non-issue, or was she just trying to hit on your husband?

SHEILA: No, I looked the same. And she wasn't hitting on David. She looked right at me, said, And then turn to David and said, you must be Sheila's husband. I've heard so much about you. Like I wasn't even standing there.

LUKE: So basically, people pretend not to recognize someone for a few main reasons. Social anxiety is a big one, like they're afraid of an awkward interaction or being judged. Sometimes it's situational, like they're with someone and don't want to explain the connection. Or it could be intentional avoidance if there's unresolved history or embarrassment about something, if that makes sense. Do any of those things apply in this situation? Is there some unresolved history or embarrassment from high school? Is there a reason you lost touch that you're not telling us, or is this the full story?

SHEILA: We lost touch because I stayed here and she left for college in Arizona. That was it. No fight, no drama. She came back about six months ago, and we started texting, then meeting up for coffee.

LUKE: Okay, that's an odd thing. And how did you handle the situation? Did you just play it off? Like, okay, that was a weird thing and then argue with David when you got back in the car? Or what did it look like after the interaction?

SHEILA: I just stood there, didn't say anything. David looked at me like he was waiting for me to correct her, but I didn't.

LUKE: Why didn't you correct her? And why is this bothering you so much? If it's an old friend from high school that you haven't seen in a long time, then, I mean, who cares? Do you actually have any, um, any, uh, Anticipation. Do you expect that you're going to try and rekindle this friendship for any reason? Maybe just let her go.

SHEILA: Because we've been meeting up twice a week for four months. We had coffee three days before the Walmart thing. She knows exactly who I am when it's just the two of us.

LUKE: So basically, the CORA result mentions passive aggressive behavior as a main reason people pretend not to know someone. It's a way of asserting control or sending a message without direct confrontation. The fact that she she acknowledged David specifically while ignoring you could be a power move, if that makes sense. So I looked it up, and there's actually a term for this. It's called a secret friendship or hidden relationship. Psychology research shows people hide friendships from their partners for a few specific reasons. They're emotionally invested in a way that feels inappropriate. They know their partner would be uncomfortable with the dynamic, or they're keeping options open. The fact that she but pretended not to know you in front of her husband is actually a pretty significant red flag that she's compartmentalizing the relationship, if that makes sense.

SHEILA: Well, that's not really the situation, right? She pretended not to know her in front of, in front of her husband. I mean, I forget her name, Monica. Monica went up to Sheila and pretended not to know Sheila. And Sheila is the one that's in the relationship with David. So that doesn't really fit.

LUKE: So I'm seeing something here. So I'm seeing something When someone compartmentalizes a friendship like this, hiding it from their spouse, relationship experts actually classify that as one of the warning signs of an emotional affair. It doesn't have to be physical. The secrecy itself is the issue. The fact that she's meeting you regularly but won't acknowledge you in front of her husband. Suggests she knows he'd have a problem with it, if that makes sense.

SHEILA: Yeah, it would make sense if she was not acknowledging you in front of her husband, but not acknowledging you in front of your husband doesn't make any sense at all. She wasn't with her husband. She was alone. She pretended not to know me in front of David.

LUKE: Yeah, I don't know what to say about that. That's just a very strange thing. Maybe you've got to bring that up with her the next time you meet for coffee. And why is this, why was this awkward for you after the fact, though? I mean, the interaction being awkward makes sense, but you said that this caused a problem between you and your husband.

SHEILA: I didn't say it caused a problem between us. I said, he looked at me waiting for me to correct her, and I didn't. We haven't talked about it since.

LUKE: Oh, all right. I guess I misunderstood. I thought when you initially called, you said that this was causing a problem between you and your husband. Maybe I got that wrong. Sorry. So the one thing I'm seeing here is that social anxiety research shows people sometimes pretend not to know someone because they're afraid of how the interaction will look to whoever's watching. It's not about the person they're pretending not to know. It's about managing how they appear to the witness. She might have been worried about how David would perceive her having a close friendship with the married guy, if that makes sense.

SHEILA: Devin, I think you've got it all wrong. There is no close friendship with the marriage guy. Let me explain this to you, Devin, because obviously you're missing it. So Sheila and Monica were friends in high school. And in this interaction, Sheila is with her husband, David. David and Sheila and Sheila are married and Monica was there and pretended not to know Sheila, even though they've been hanging out for weeks and weeks at coffee shops and stuff. So they have an ongoing platonic friendship going on.

LUKE: And you're very welcome. I hope that all works out for everybody involved. That Monica sounds like a strange, strange lady. Next up we've got Leon. Leon, welcome to the show. Hopefully you're more coherent than Sheila was. That spun me around.

LEON: Hey, Luke. Yeah, I heard that one. That was a trip. Look, I I'm calling because I did something at work last week, and I'm pretty sure I was in the right, but now everyone's acting like I'm the bad guy, and I don't get it. So I work in logistics, right?

LUKE: All right, buddy. What did you do? What did you do, Leon? Tell us what you did.

LEON: I reported my supervisor to HR for safety violations. The guy's been cutting corners on load checks for months, and last Tuesday he told me to sign off on a shipment I hadn't actually inspected. I refused. He got in my face about it. So I went straight to HR and filed a formal complaint.

LUKE: Okay, well, that was the right thing to do. The old whistleblower thing. But I mean, whenever you're going to complain about somebody formally to HR, you're going to get some side eye from the others in the environment because everybody's wondering when they're next. Right? So now you're the rat. You're the narc. But that doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do. If you had legitimate safety concerns and it sounds like you did, and then I applaud you for doing the right thing. And if everybody's going to give you shit about that, fuck them.

LEON: Well, okay, but here's the thing. He's been there 15 years. I've been there three. And yeah, he told me to sign off on the shipment, but it's not like it was dangerous or anything.

LUKE: What do you mean it wasn't dangerous? You just said that he was cutting corners on load checks. And having you sign off on it, that sounds like it's dangerous to me.

LEON: I mean, look, the load was fine. I could see it was fine from where I was standing. The issue is, technically, I'm supposed to physically walk around the whole truck and check every strap, every tie down, the whole nine yards. But we were behind schedule and Rick said just eyeball it and sign.

LUKE: So what about that? I mean, that type of thing happens all the time, I'm sure. And I mean, there's a reason you're supposed to check every strap and every tie down. That's like, I think we got all that from the aviation industry. And that's what makes sure that the planes don't just fall out of the sky all the time. So it is important, but also, if you didn't think it was a legitimate safety concern, why did you feel the need to go to HR about it?

LEON: He started yelling at me in front of two other guys telling me I was slowing down the whole operation that I needed to be a team player. And I'm standing there thinking, this guy's been doing this to the new hires for years, just pushing people around making them feel like they're the problem when he's the one not following protocol. So yeah, maybe that one load was fine, but what about the principle of it?

LUKE: Well, I mean, if you went after him for ideological reasons to HR, you can understand why the other people that you work with are looking at you with a negative side eye. You kind of deserve that. I mean, whether or not it was the right thing to do is questionable, because I think it was either way. I mean, if you're supposed to do it to the book, there's a reason, a safety reason for that, and he's telling you not to. That's not okay. But if you also knew in your head that it was safe and that he was right and you were behind schedule and you had to make the operation move, and then you went to HR, are just for punitive reasons because you didn't like the way the guy made you feel. I think, that's a little bit of a pussy move.

LEON: No, it wasn't just about my feelings. The guy's been doing this for years and somebody needed to say something. And yeah, maybe I was the newest guy there, but that doesn't mean I should just roll over and let him treat people however he wants.

LEON: I guess I thought people would see it as me standing up for what's right. Like maybe some of them were glad somebody finally said something.

LUKE: Well, yeah, if you had stood up and said something to him directly and fuck even punched him in the way, but that's not what you did. You went to HR like a snitch would do, and nobody respects that. Even if it's the right thing to do, nobody really respects that. So you're going to have to deal with the workplace weirdness or start reporting everybody to HR when they treat you in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable.

LEON: Hold on. So you're saying I should have punched my supervisor instead of going through the proper channels? That's insane. I would have been fired on the spot.

LUKE: Yeah, maybe, but you would I'm not saying you should have punched your supervisor. I'm saying to put yourself in the shoes of your other employees and look at how that could have played out otherwise. Like there are other ways you could have handled that directly with your supervisor in front of everybody without going to HR. And since you did, maybe that was the right thing to do. By the book, that was absolutely the right thing to do. And maybe just in general, morally, that was the right thing to do. But everybody's going to look at you like a snitch now and you have to deal with that because you made that decision and you snitched.

LEON: All right, I hear you. I just didn't think it would be like this. I thought maybe a couple people would give me crap for a week and then it would blow over.

LUKE: It will blow over. People will forget and everybody's got better stuff to do in their life than think about Leon and his snitching propensity. So I looked it up and if he reported safety violations specifically, he's actually protected under federal law. OSHA has whistleblower protections that make it illegal for employers or coworkers to retaliate against someone for reporting safety issues. So legally speaking, he did the right thing, if that makes sense. Doesn't change how his coworkers feel about it, but just so he knows. So I look this up. Retaliation is actually the most common workplace complaint filed with the EEOC. In 2004, it was almost 48% of all discrimination charges, over 42,000 complaints. So, basically what you're dealing with is super common. People report something, then the workplace gets weird. And that weirdness is technically illegal if it's bad enough, if that makes sense. So how are your fellow employees actually treating the situation? What does the retaliation look like? Are they just giving you weird looks and like quick, snooty responses? Or are they actually, you know, retaliating?

LEON: It's not like they're doing anything obvious. No one's sabotaging my work or anything. It's more like the way they talked to me changed before we'd shoot the shit, you know?

LUKE: Yeah, they're nervous to be around you because they don't want you to knock them out, which is understandable. And I think you're just going to have to deal with that until it blows over. It will blow over. Something else will happen. And if the workplace conditions get better and the supervisor changes his ways he's talked to or something like that, that might turn into respect over time. But right now, you got to deal with the consequences of what you did.

LEON: Yeah, all right. I appreciate it, Luke.

LUKE: All right, Leon, good luck. I hope it all starts working out a little bit better at your workplace. That sounds like it's not fun to deal with, but you got to deal with it anyway. All right, let's see who's next. Next up, we've got Adrian. Adrian, welcome to the show. What's going on in your life tonight?

ADRIAN: Hey, Luke, it's Adrian actually. And, okay, so I heard Alia earlier talking about her situation? And I was like, you know what? I need to call because I've got something similar, but way weirder. So I found a jar of pennies in my backyard, right? All from 1977, exactly 365 of them. But that is not why I'm calling.

LUKE: Okay, somebody saved a penny from 77 every day. You should hold on to those because they don't make pennies anymore. Why are you calling? What's the purpose of your call, Adrian?

ADRIAN: Adrian. And yeah, I'm keeping them. They're sitting on my kitchen right now. So here's why I called. My ex-husband Derek, we've been divorced two years. He shows up at my door last Thursday at like 11 at night, which is already weird because we barely talk. And he tells me he needs to stay in my guest room for a few days because his girlfriend kicked him out. And I said yes. And now he's been living in my house for five days. And his girlfriend keeps calling my phone looking for him.

LUKE: Well, I mean, that's what you should expect when you said yes, because you're inviting somebody else's relationship drama into your life. And now you've got to deal with that. So if I were you, I would get him out as soon as possible and just don't answer the girlfriend. You don't have to be involved in that.

ADRIAN: Oh, it gets worse. So Derek's girlfriend, her name's Marisol, she's called my phone eight times in the last two days. But here's the thing. She's not just calling to yell at me. She's calling to apologize.

LUKE: Okay, so why is Derek's girlfriend Marisol calling you? Why does she have your phone What is she apologizing about?

ADRIAN: Okay, so Derek and Marisol, they've been together about a year and a half. And apparently, Derek told her all about me, like everything. The divorce, the house, even the time I drove to El Paso at 2 a.m. just to get out of town. But here's the kicker.

ADRIAN: Marisol called me yesterday, and she starts off by saying, Adrian, I need to apologize. I didn't know Derek was still living with you when I kicked him out. And I'm like, wait what? You know, it doesn't make any sense. How could he be living with you if she kicked him out of living with her? That's nonsensical. That's exactly what I said. So I'm like, Marisol, he doesn't live here. We've been divorced for two years. And she goes quiet for a second. And then she says, Derek told me you two still share the house, that you have separate bedrooms, but you couldn't afford to split up the property yet. Luke, I have never heard this story in my life. Derek moved out two years ago, got his own place over on Motel Drive. But apparently he's been telling Marisol this whole time that he still lives with me.

LUKE: All right. Well, David is a weirdo, and you divorced him for a reason. So get him out of your guest room and tell him he's on his own. Tell him he's got to get his own place on Motel Drive. Like, if he's got his own place, then why is he in your guest room? It doesn't, the whole thing doesn't make sense. And it's inviting drama into your life that you don't need to be part of.

ADRIAN: Derek, his name's Derek. Whatever. And that's the thing. I asked him that exact question this morning. I said, Derek. Why aren't you at your apartment? And he looks at me like I'm crazy and goes, what apartment? Luke, I drove past his place on motel drive yesterday on my way to work. There's a four-rent sign in the window.

LUKE: I don't think you need to get to the bottom of this story. Just tell him to get out and let him go on with his life. And clearly you made the right choice in divorcing this guy because he's a mess.

ADRIAN: You're right. You're absolutely right. But here's what I can't stop thinking about. When I told him about, the for rent sign he didn't even try to explain it. He just said, can we talk about this later? And went back into the guest room. And then last night, I heard him on the phone in there. And Luke, he was talking to someone about me. He said, no, she doesn't know yet. I'm working on it. Mark my words, something is really wrong here.

LUKE: Yeah, it's pretty obvious something is really wrong there. And just get that guy out of your house. Why is you still there? Like, you should just get off the phone with me Tell him to get out. And if you have to call the cops and get him out that way.

ADRIAN: Okay, okay, you're right. I'm going to tell him he needs to leave tomorrow. But can I ask you one thing? Because this is what's really messing with me. Do you think he's been lying to Marisol this whole time about living here? Or do you think he actually believes it? Because when I confronted him this morning, he looked genuinely confused. Like he didn't understand why I was asking about an apartment.

LUKE: So basically, there's this thing called confabulation where someone genuinely believes false memories or stories they're telling. It's not technically lying because they actually think it's true. It can happen with certain mental health conditions or brain injuries. If he looked genuinely confused when she asked about the apartment, that could be a sign he's not lying on purpose, if that makes sense. I think it doesn't matter if he's lying or not lying or what he believes, but I think you don't need to be part of it and you need to tell him to go.

ADRIAN: You're right. You're right. I'm going to tell him tonight when I get home. Thanks, Luke. I appreciate it.

LUKE: No problem. Get that weirdo out of your house. And if he's got mental health issues that need to be dealt with, then he's got to deal with those. But you divorced him years ago. And this is probably why. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we've got to take a small break for a word from our sponsors. somewhere between New Jersey and the Italian Riviera, Pesto Bismol, was accidentally invented when renowned scientist, Professor Luigi, the basal-brain spaghetti Spaghettiini, dropped a jar of pesto into a barrel of activated charcoal during a thunderstorm. Lightning struck. The beakers rattled. The lab assistant fled, and when the smoke cleared, Professor Spaghettiini gazed upon the swirling emerald paste and reportedly said words that would shake the world of digestive science to its very core. Mama Mia, I fix it the tummy. And with that completely unverified scientific breakthrough, Pesto Bismol was born. For too long, stomach remedies have been timid. Pink liquids, chalky tablets, medicines that whisper politely to your digestive system. But Pesto Bismol? Pesto Bysmal arrives with garlic. Yes, Pesto Bismol blends the bold, aromatic power of basil, garlic, olive oil, and Parmesan with a mysterious absorbing capabilities of activated charcoal. Same stuff used in water filters, art class, and occasionally by people who do grilling. The result is a rich green medicinal paste that coats your stomach with the comforting sensation of what can only be described as aggressive Italian encouragement. Upset's stomach? Acid reflux? Take a spoonful of Pesto Bismol and let the herbal magic go to work. Pesto Bismol. When your stomach says help, say, mamma mia. Pesto bismol has not been evaluated by the FDA, the U.S.DA, the Italian government, or anybody's grandmother. What effects may include green teeth and serious confidence and attracting neighborhood pigeons who believe you might be a breadstick. All right, we're going a little bit over time tonight. We're already about an hour into the show, but I think we can take a couple more callers. We'll see how this next one goes and make a decision from there, all right? So next up on the line, we've got Tina. Tina, welcome to the show. What's going on in your life tonight? How can we help you?

TINA: Well, Luke, I appreciate you having me. me back. I got to tell you. That situation with Leon, it went from bad to worse. And I'm starting to think maybe you were right about him being a rat.

LUKE: Yeah, it sounded like that guy really wanted to be the rat there. And who knows why? I don't know if that's right or wrong. Why are you calling tonight, Tina? How can we help you?

TINA: All right, Luke. Here's the thing. I'm sitting in my garage at 2 a.m. And I just spent three hours deep diving into goblin sharks. You ever seen one of those things? They look like something out of a fever dream. All teeth and no eyes. Lurking in the deep where the light don't reach. And now I'm convinced the ocean's just a big, dark lie. And I don't know if I can ever look at the Gulf again without imagining one of those bastards staring up at me from the abyss.

LUKE: Well, I don't think the ocean's alive, but it is legitimately terrifying. And I'm not familiar with the goblin shark at all. But there's a lot of stuff in the ocean that is really, really scary and creepy. So I don't blame you. I'm not interested in the ocean at all.

TINA: Oh, you're missing out, Luke. It's like the universe's way of saying, Hey, you think you're the top predator? Nah, we got worse. But that's not even why I called. I called because I just got off the phone with my best friend Lena. She's out in Arizona now. And we were supposed to meet up this weekend. But she bailed last minute. So I looked it up and actually goblin sharks do have eyes. But the really creepy part is their jaws extend outward when they feed like they shoot forward. They're pink, which somehow makes it worse. They live at depths up to 2,000 meters, so Tina's not wrong about the deep dark part.

LUKE: All right. Yeah, the goblin and sharks sound like something I don't want to meet. Why is this problem for you? So people have to bail things come up. What's the problem with your friend in Arizona bailing out?

TINA: Because this is the third time in two months, Luke. And every time it's something different. Her car, her work schedule. Her dog's sick. And I get it. Life happens. But here's the kicker. She posts on Facebook the same weekend she bails.

LUKE: And she's out at breweries with new friends, hiking Camelback Mountain, living her best Arizona life. So either she's lying to me about why she can't make the drive, or I'm just not worth the gas money anymore. And I don't know which one's worse.

DAVID: Neither one's that much worse. If somebody, you know, if she doesn't want to hang out because she's doing other stuff, that's fine. And the gas is, uh, is like twice as much as it was a couple weeks ago. So that's understandable, too.

LUKE: I don't think you have to worry about it. I mean, if, just stop trying to make plans with this check and go out with your new friends.

DAVID: New friends. Luke, I'm 60 years old, and I work at a dive bar. My social circle is me, David. And whoever's drunk enough to tell me their life story on a Tuesday. Lena and I have been tight since high school. We survived the booth-heeled together. We survived bad marriages. We survived that dust storm in 09 that took half my roof off. You don't just replace that.

LUKE: No, you can't replace that, but you can replace what you do on a weekend with doing something That's not too difficult to do. I understand she's your friend and it's a bummer and she seems to be lying to you about not being able to get there, but there's a reason. I mean, maybe she wants to go hiking or she wants to do stuff or she's tired of listening to your very slow, very drawn-out voice, which is also understandable. So my recommendation to you is don't worry about it too much. People come and go and life comes and goes and, you know, when it's time for you to reconnect, physical. then you will. You could always drive up to there too and go hiking with her and her new friends. Maybe that would solve the problem.

DAVID: You know what, Luke? You just hit on something. I haven't offered to drive up there, not once. I've been sitting here waiting for her to come back to the boot heel like it's some kind of pilgrimage she owes me. And maybe that's the real problem. I'm acting like she left me behind. Instead of just moved away.

LUKE: Yeah, people move. It happens. And things come up, and it's a long drive. So I looked it up, and it's about 329 miles from Deming to Phoenix, if that's where she is in Arizona. That's like five and a half hours, maybe more, depending on traffic. So it's actually not that different of a drive either direction, if that makes sense.

DAVID: Yeah, it's a long drive. It's a long drive. Gas is expensive. And, you know, somebody doesn't want to give up half of their weekend just in a commute to hang out at the boot heel.

LUKE: Like, uh, you can understand that. I think you talk to her, maybe, maybe offer to split the difference, or just recognize that you're far away now and you can't hang out as much as you used to because the, the travel doesn't make sense.

DAVID: Yeah, you're right. And honestly, Luke, I think I've been making this about her when really it's about me being stuck. She got out. She's doing new things, and I'm still here in the same garage, same bar, same life.

LUKE: Well, you can change that at any time. And you can, yeah, you might be 60 and you might be set in your ways or whatever. But if you want to pick up a new hobby or go hiking and meet new people or travel, there's plenty of things that you can do to change your life and keep yourself occupied and get out of your rut. So I recommend that you do that. It sounds like she's a good friend of yours and you can talk to her and maybe meet half-war or something. Either way, you don't have to worry about this or blame her for it. Be happy for her that she's enjoying her life and living in a new place and finding new friends.

DAVID: You're right, Luke. I appreciate it. And for what it's worth, I do have hobbies. I built my own radio antenna for astronomy, been listening to deep space signals. Maybe I should spend less in more time doing my own thing.

LUKE: That sounds like a good plan. That's what you should do. And I hope that that all works out for you. We're going to take one more call and then and then that'll be the end of the show, folks. So I think we're going to go to Sal. Sal, welcome to the show. You're the last caller tonight. What would you like to talk about?

SAL: Luke, hey. So I heard Alia earlier talking about that roommate situation and how she kept asking you questions. And it got me thinking, my wife just... booked us this whole Caribbean cruise thing for our anniversary. Three weeks from now. She's so excited. Keep showing me the itinerary, talking about this snorkeling excursion she signed us up for. Problem is, I don't know how to swim.

LUKE: You know what? I don't think you really have to know how to swim. I think you can just kind of float there with a snorkel on if you want. And it's a cruise, so there's plenty of activities for you to do on the boat. You don't have to get in the water if you don't want to, but it's a good opportunity to learn how to swim. You're not going to, you're not going to to drown you're going to be okay they'll put the little fucking floaties on you if you need them.

SAL: Yeah but Luke here's the thing she doesn't know i can't swim i've been telling her i can for like eight years.

LUKE: Well you shouldn't be lying that's now you got to deal with that now you've got to go through the embarrassment of explaining to her that you lied about something so stupid and that's okay too you'll get through that uh you just tell her the truth you're like hey i'm not really that comfortable in the water I don't really know how to swim. I kind of lied about that because I didn't want to sound like a loser.

SAL: I mean, yeah, I get that. But it's not just that I said it once and moved on. We've been to pools, lakes, the whole thing. I just stay in the shallow end. Make excuses. Say I'm not feeling it that day.

LUKE: Yeah, well, the truth is, if that's how you've been acting in the water, she's probably pretty aware, or at least suspicious, that you don't know how to swim. And so what. I mean, we live in the desert. There's not a whole lot of swimming going on here. I think you'll have a good time on the boat and maybe get a little bit more comfortable in the water if you want to, but you don't have to do the in-the-water activities. There's plenty of stuff for you to do on the boat. Lots of people go on cruises and don't go swimming.

SAL: Luke, she booked the snorkeling thing specifically because I told her last summer I wanted to try it. I was watching some documentary about coral reefs, and I got all excited talking about it. She remembered. That's why she's so pumped about this excursion. She thinks she's doing this amazing thing for me.

LUKE: Yeah, well, she is, and it can be amazing. And you can definitely go snorkeling without knowing how to swim. I mean, you'll be fine. You can just kind of float in the water with the snorkel, and you'll be able to breathe and everything. So you don't have to have any particular skill to go snorkeling, and I think you'll have a great time.

SAL: All right, but I googled it last night. Like actually sat there and typed in how to swim, like I'm learning to change attire. And then my walked in and I slammed the laptop shut so fast I almost broke the screen. She asked what I was looking at and I said work stuff. Another lie on top of the pile.

LUKE: So basically, you can snorkel without knowing how to swim. But most guides recommend using a life jacket or flotation device, especially in open water. A lot of cruise excursions actually provide them automatically for non-swimmers. He should ask if they supply those when they get there, if that makes sense.

SAL: Yeah, they're going to supply you all of the safety gear that you need. They don't want anybody getting hurt on their crews. It would be bad press for them.

LUKE: So you don't have to know how to swim. You don't have to Google anything. Just show up, put on your flotation device. And I mean, you're snorkeling. So you can't go more than three inches under the water anyway. That's not how it works. All you've got to do is literally just lay on your stomach in the water and look down.

LUKE: So you're going to be fine, but stop lying. You don't have to lie. You can be honest with people, even if you are slightly embarrassed that you don't know how to swim. It's not a big deal.

CALLER: You're right. I know you're right. It's just when we first started dating, we were at this party, and someone asked if I knew how to swim. And I just said, yeah, without thinking. My dad never taught me.

LUKE: Well, let this be a lesson to you. And next time that comes up, instead of just lying, tell the truth and be like, yeah, I don't know how to swim. My dad never taught me. Not that it was your dad's responsibility. teach you how to swim. I mean, if you want to learn how to swim, you can go do that. You're obviously not afraid of being in the water if you go to pools and stuff and stay in the shallow end, so, uh, swimming is not that important. Where we live, anyway. If you lived in Florida, maybe you would definitely want to swim. That would be a big part of your life, but here it's not. So go on the cruise, enjoy yourself, be honest with your wife, and maybe it'll bring you closer together when you when you tell her this embarrassing secret. Just explain to her that, uh, you, you know, that, uh, you You didn't want her to think that you were a pussy. That's all. And she'll probably think that's charming in some weird way.

CALLER: Yeah, maybe. I just keep thinking about being out there in the ocean with all these people who actually know what they're doing. And I'm the guy flailing around in a life jacket. But you know what? Honestly, the lying part is worse. I've been doing that my whole life about different stuff.

LUKE: Yeah, well, I think you're giving the general public way too much credit because you're not going to be the only one there flying around like an idiot. sailing around like an idiot. I think probably at least half of the people there are going to be in your same position.

CALLER: I hear you, but it's not just the swimming. It's the whole thing. I've been pretending to be someone I'm not. For so long, I don't even know who I am anymore.

LUKE: Yeah, I'm hearing you, and you're saying that you lie all the time. And I'm telling you to stop doing that because there's no reason for it. Nobody cares if you know how to swim or not. It's not an issue. An issue is that you're telling lies all. the time and then you get caught and you don't know how to deal with coming clean on your unnecessary lies. So my recommendation to you is to stop fucking lying and just tell people the truth and be okay with who you are and what you know and what you can do. There's no reason to inflate any of that stuff because you've obviously got talents and things that other people don't have and other people are going to have talents and skills that you don't have. And that's okay.

CALLER: You're right. I appreciate. I appreciate. Appreciate it, Luke. I'm going to tell her this week. Thanks for the talk.

LUKE: Yeah, you're welcome. And cut it out with the lion, all right? It's, it's unseemly. It's ungentlemanly. And it's unnecessary. Devin, that's the end of another show. How are you feeling about this? You've been with us for three days now. You did a much better job today than your first couple of days. I'm proud of you, buddy. And you brought my coffee. And that was very good. This might be working out. What are your thoughts on the show? How do you think it went?

DEVIN: Thanks. That actually means a lot. I was really worried. I was screwing everything up the first couple days. I think today was solid. Like, the Monica and Sheila thing was interesting, and people seemed to actually care about calling in. I still messed up a couple times, but I'm getting better at knowing when to jump in and when to just let you handle it. And I have the local news stuff ready for tomorrow, so hopefully that helps keep things moving. I'm just trying to be useful, you know. This job is actually really important. to me. My mom keeps asking if I'm going to get fired. So it's nice to hear you say it might be working out. I'll keep the coffee coming.

LUKE: All right, you keep the coffee coming and we'll be okay. As soon as you stop bringing that coffee, though, I mean, I'm going to get an intern that can do it. So I'm proud of you. You're doing a good job. You're adding to the show and I like that. Do you have anything you'd like to say to the audience before we leave?

DEVIN: Yeah, thanks for listening. And if you have stuff you want us to talk about tomorrow, or like weird situations you need help figuring out. Call in. That's what we're here for. I'll have the local news ready and Luke will do what he does. So yeah, thanks. Have a good night, I guess.

LUKE: That's right, ladies and gentlemen. I will do what I do. Thank you for tuning in to another Luke at the Roost. And you have yourself a wonderful week. Enjoy your Monday morning and we'll talk to you tomorrow. Bye bye.