LUKE: All right. Welcome back to Luke at the Roost. This is the call-in radio show where you can call in and ask me whatever's on your mind, and I'll give you the best advice I can. If you'd like to give me a call, the number is 208-439-58-53. That's 208-439 Luke. And I'd like to give a special thank you to everybody today, because today we hit 1,000 downloads, which is, insane to me, considering this has only been going on for a month or so. So thank you to all of you out there that enjoy listening to my voice. That's, it's very nice for you, and we couldn't do it without yet. So today is, it's actually Thursday, March 5th, but I'll consider it Wednesday's show, because it just passed midnight a little while ago. It's getting laid out here, and we're ready to give some advice. Gangsta hip hop here to play in the background. That's perfect. And we're going to get to our calls. So, Wendell, Wendell, you're calling in today? What's going on tonight?

WENDELL: My wife made a joke tonight. About our daughter being tall like my family. Except nobody in my family is tall, Luke. Nobody. And I've known since this kid was three years old that she's not mine biologically. I did the math. I remember exactly when my wife had that thing with her co-worker. But here's the thing that's eating me up right now.

LUKE: Wow, it's not even the thing that your kid isn't your kid? Are you sure? Have you done a paternity test or any sort of DNA verification? I mean, that seems like awful circumstantial evidence, but what is it that's eating you up right now?

WENDELL: No tests, no DNA, nothing official like that, but Luke, I'm telling you I know. The timeline is perfect. The features don't match either of us. And there was this whole two months back then, where things were weird. Even though we never said it out loud. But that's not what's got me twisted up tonight, man. What's killing me is that I chose this.

LUKE: You chose what? You chose going to the laundromat tonight? Or you chose a wife that's going to cheat on you and then you're never going to talk about it? You need to know this for sure. You're making a lot of accusations here. It seems like maybe you might not be right about that. You should probably have a conversation and see if there's a reason for your hesitance, your paranoia here.

WENDELL: No, no, no, Luke, you're right. I should say it clearer. I chose to be her dad. When she was three, I sat in my truck outside a clinic that does paternity tests, and I had all the paperwork filled out, and I sat there for 45 minutes, and then I drove home and threw it away, because I realized I didn't want to know officially. I wanted to keep being her father. Every soccer practice, every scraped knee, every time she runs up and hugs me when I pick her up from her, school. That's real. That's mine.

LUKE: Okay, okay, okay. But, uh, you sound awful angry about it. It doesn't sound like it's, uh, making you feel joyful and, uh, happy. Why are you so upset?

WENDELL: Because tonight when my wife made that joke, she was so casual about it, so comfortable with the lie. And it hit me that she doesn't know that I know. She thinks she got away with it completely. And I'm sitting there smiling and nodding like, yeah, funny how genetics work. And inside, I'm screaming because I'm screaming because I'm, I've been carrying this alone for 10 years, Luke. 10 years of being the only one who knows the truth.

LUKE: Well, how do you know the truth if you haven't confirmed anything? You just have a suspicion and you're calling it the truth. Your wife might not know what you're thinking at all. Maybe she didn't do anything.

WENDELL: Luke, she told me. Not directly, but she told me. This was back when our daughter was maybe six months old. We'd had some wine one night, and she started crying and said she needed to tell me something, and I stopped her. I literally put my hand up and said, I don't want to hear it. Whatever it is, we're good. We're moving forward. She tried twice more over the next year to bring it up, and both times, I shut it down because I didn't want it to be real if we said it out loud. So she thinks I don't know because I wouldn't let her tell me. But Luke, I know what she was trying to confess.

LUKE: Yeah, well, maybe you think you know what she was trying to confess. You might not have any idea. Jesus, man. You're carrying around an awful big burden without verification here, just thinking what you think is the truth. And maybe it's not. Maybe you should ask her what she was trying to confess all those times and stop shutting her down any time she tries to confess. Wouldn't you rather know for real what's going on than just be upset for the rest of your life for no reason?

WENDELL: You're making me feel crazy here, Luke. But maybe you're right. Maybe I am crazy. But what if I ask? And it's exactly what I think it is. What do I do then? Right now I get to be her dad With no asterisk, no question mark The second we say it out loud, everything changes My daughter's 13 She's got her whole life ahead of her She doesn't need to find out Her dad isn't her dad And her mom cheated And we've been lying to her for her entire existence

LUKE: Well no, she doesn't need to find that out You don't have to tell her that I mean and if you're living your life Thinking that this is the case What's the difference if it's said out loud or not Only good can come of having the conversation, right? If you already think it's the truth, and then you find out it's the truth, nothing changes. But if you think it's the truth and you find out that she wanted to tell you something completely unrelated, that's a big burden off of your shoulders.

WENDELL: Okay, okay, you're actually making sense. And I hate that, because I've built this whole thing in my head for a decade. And now you're telling me maybe I built it on nothing. But Luke hears what scares me about asking. to confess that she kissed someone. Just kissed, nothing more, and I open this whole can of worms and put the idea in her head That I think our daughter isn't mine. What if I'm about to ruin a good thing by digging when I should have just let sleeping dogs lie? Because right now, even with all this weight on carrying, we're happy.

LUKE: Yeah, you sound super happy. No, you should know for sure. Because if she does tell you that she just kissed someone, she's just going to laugh. She's just going to be like, oh my God, God, I can't believe that you thought that for the last 10 years. Any reasonable person would just laugh in that situation, not be upset with you for it. But I would recommend if your wife's trying to tell you something, you let her tell you.

WENDELL: You're right. God, you're right, and I've wasted 10 years being terrified of a conversation. I'm going to talk to her this weekend when our daughter's at the tournament in Deming.

LUKE: I think that's a great idea. And maybe she's just lucky. She got tall. Good for her. That is funny, though, that the whole situation is pretty funny. You're a funny guy, sir.

WENDELL: Yeah, well, I don't feel funny. I feel like an idiot who's been white-knuckling a secret. That might not even be a secret. My wife's going to think I've lost my mind when I finally bring this up after shutting her down for a decade. Hey, Luke, can I ask you something, though? What if I'm right? What if I ask? And it is what I think it is. Do I just keep being dad like nothing happened? Or does everything fall apart?

LUKE: Well, what do you think? I don't think anything would have to change. I mean, you'd be operating as usual. You already believe it's the truth, so confirming that doesn't change anything. If you've decided to be her dad, you're her dad. And she doesn't know any other dad, right?

WENDELL: You love your kid, and you've been there for her whole life, and nothing changes. You're absolutely right. I've already made my peace with it in my head. I just never made my peace with it out loud. And she is my kid, Luke. She really is. I taught her how to throw a curveball. I'm the one who sits in the stands at every game.

WILL: I promise I'll call back after we talk. Thank you, man. Seriously. I've been carrying this around like a boulder on my back. And you just made me realize I could have put it down any time.

LUKE: Yeah, man, it sounds like you wanted to carry the boulder on your back. Put it down. That's what I say. Put it down. Next up we've got Alia. Alia, welcome to the radio show. How can we help you today?

ALIA: Hey, Luke. Okay, so I need you to settle something because my boyfriend is asleep and I am losing my mind over this. Everyone who says they can hear the difference between vinyl and digital is completely full of shit, right? Like it is scientifically impossible for the human ear to detect what they claim their hearing. And I have been arguing about this online for two hours and I need back up here.

LUKE: Not always would be my answer for you. Sometimes you can definitely tell that what you're listening to is uh is vinyl um as opposed to sometimes you can absolutely tell that it's digital especially if there's any level of like digital clipping in it if the signal gets too loud then um vinyl never sounds like that so so it's a very obvious digital sound if things are mixed appropriately and with some of today's And stuff, you can make a digital recording sound very much like vinyl. But when people are talking about the vinyl sound, usually what they're referring to is noise. It's the scratches and the clicks and the pops that are inherently in the vinyl. And I think a lot of audio file type people, like the old school, people from the 70s, when they're saying it doesn't sound the same, it's because they're not listening to it through the old analog tubes used to be around back in the day. That imparted a very warm sort of distortion to the sound that people got very used to. It's really nice sounding to us. We like it a lot. So, I mean, they could play a vinyl record on some record player that they picked up at Best Buy a couple of years ago, and it's not going to have that same warmth characteristic that came from the old tubes. So it's a complicated question that you've got there. And I would say that, yeah, you can tell a difference, but not always, because we've come really far in replicating that vinyl sound.

ALIA: Okay, but see, that's exactly what I'm saying, though. The noise, the scratches, the pops, the warmth from the tubes, that's all just distortion. It's imperfections. People are out here spending $3,000 on turntables and telling me they're can hear more detail. And it's like, no. You are hearing less detail because you added a bunch of random noise to it. You are paying money to make the sound worse and then convincing yourself it's better because you dropped all that cash and you need to justify it.

LUKE: I would agree with you in most instances. I think that's what most people are doing. But also having had some vintage style recording gear, I can tell when something's going through a nice, warm tool, tube, and it has the proper circuitry, right? I can tell the difference between high-end gear and sheep gear. And it becomes really apparent whenever the volume is pushed a little bit too loud. Digital recordings are very clean, very pristine, unless there's distortion added after the fact. And I think also another part of this, this debate that gets people confused is the words they use. You're saying that, you know, people say that they hear more detail in the vinyl and that that's just noise. But the noise is details. All those little scratches and the warmth that's added, the character that's added to the sound, that's detail and its noise. So the words that we use to describe the sounds can make the conversation more complex.

ALIA: Okay. hold on. That is not what detail means. Detail is like being able to hear the individual strings on a guitar or the breath between vocal lines. Details information that was actually in the original recording. A scratch from dust on your record is not detail. It is interference. It is the opposite of detail.

LUKE: Well, I disagree with you, and that's what I'm saying. And people's, uh,! of what the words mean is very different, especially when it comes to audio stuff. When we're doing recording of music and stuff, we might use words like brassy or shiny or pristine presence. Those types of adjectives, descriptive words, mean the different things to different people. So it really helps in the music-making recording process when people are on the same wavelength about what those words mean to them because you could say, ah, it's a little bit muddy, and that might mean something completely different to me than it means to you. When you say the word detail, it just means, to me, it means any detail, not necessarily just the details that were in the original source raw input, but also the detail of the sounds that are introduced from the signal chain. It could be the detail coming from a fancy compressor. That's why there's more than one type of compressor because they all have different circuitry and different architecture. So they impart a different sound. And people pay a lot of money to pick the proper one for the sound that they're going for.

ALIA: All right, but we are not talking about the recording process here. We are talking about playback. Like when someone records an album, they make choices about compression and warmth and all that fine. But then, once that album exists, the job of your playback system is to reproduce what they made as accurately as possible. And vinyl cannot do that as accurately as digital, because it is a physical medium that degrades and kicks up noise. And the thing that is making me crazy is people act like this is subjective, like it is a matter of taste, but it is not.

LUKE: Well, no, because what you're saying doesn't hold up. Because in order to hear the representation that was intended by the producer, the recording engineers, you would have to be in that same physical space listening on those same monitors with the same amount of people in the room, the same furniture, in the same places. Like, there's a lot going into it that it makes the sound variable. What you're listening to, whether you're listening through, either you're listening through earbuds or speakers or in your car, that's all going to sound very, very different. And not the original intention of the producer, probably. Not that many people have, you know, $20,000 studio monitors in a perfectly treated acoustic room to listen to this music on. Some people do. Some of those high-fi people do. But for the most part, that's not how people are listening to it. And it doesn't sound anything like it sounded in the recording booth or what the mixing mastering engineer produced for sale. Think about beats headphones a few years back when those came out. Those were not made to represent the sound as it was. They were really designed to boost the bass so that those little tiny speakers would sound bigger and fuller than they really physically could. And even, before that, there was the Bose wave speaker that did some crazy shit with bouncing around in a little sound chamber and stuff. But each of these different devices is trying to give things a different EQ curve and produce the sound in the way that they think is going to sound best, not necessarily most accurate.

ALIA: Okay, yes, but that is my entire point. All of those things you just listed are making the sound less accurate. And people should know that is what they are doing. If you want to listen on beats headphones, because you like the extra bass, fine, do that.

LUKE: But do not tell me that you are hearing the music better or more authentically. And same thing with vinyl.

ALIA: Well, a word like better is subjective. So, I mean, you can't have a hardline approach to this. It is very subjective. People hear different. Everybody's ears have a different hearing curve. innumerable variables in how people hear music. And whatever it is that they like is what they like, but if you're going for accuracy, it's actually more about the room that you're in than anything else in the signal chain.

LUKE: Wait, hold on. The room matters more than the actual format you are playing the music on. That does not make sense. Like I get that acoustics matter. But you are telling me that whether or I am in a carpeted room or a hardwood room makes more difference than whether I am listening to a lossless. File versus a record that has been played 500 times and has dust in the grooves.

ALIA: In a lot of instances, yes, that's exactly what I'm telling you. I mean, think about if you were to take the same song from the same, you know, in the same format, either vinyl or your Bluetooth speaker or whatever it is, that you're really used to, and you play a song in a church. And then play that same song in your car from the same speaker. It's going to sound wildly different because the acoustics is an enormous part of this.

LUKE: Like there's lots of different ways to simulate that, but it's not the same thing as just adding bass or boosting the EQ in that range because if you do that, it's like a static change, right? You're lifting all of the those frequencies that are already there at the same time. When we're talking about adding warmth to something, it's adding additional frequencies that are moving around at different times, right? It's not just turning up the frequencies that are there. It's actually adding new content, new information into the sound.

ALIA: Okay, wait. So now you are saying warmth is adding frequencies that were not there in the original recording, that is distortion.

LUKE: Correct. You are literally describing harmonic distortion.

ALIA: Yes. So when people say they like the warmth of vinyl, what they actually mean is they like the distortion that vinyl adds to the original recording.

LUKE: Correct.

ALIA: Which means they are not hearing what the artist intended. They are hearing a modified version with extra stuff added in.

LUKE: Yes, that's mostly true, except the artist may have intended for them to listen in that way, because most artists that have heard that sound like it too.

ALIA: But that is circular reasoning. The artist made the recording on equipment that was available at the time. And if they were making it today, with modern digital tools, they would make different choices. You cannot say the artist intended for distortion when distortion was just a limitation of the technology they had.

LUKE: Sure you can. Because there's a lot, I mean, most bands will choose what studio they go to record in because of what particular gear is there. Because it adds that distortion that they like. Think of a band like Nirvana. Dave Grohl famously bought Sound City because he liked the distortion that the mixing console added. You can't get that sound other way. I mean, now you can through digital modeling and stuff like that. But, yeah, bands will still go to great lengths to get that old gear because they like that sound.

ALIA: Okay, fine. So some artists specifically seek out that distortion because they like it. But that does not mean final is better for listening. That just means they made creative choices about what kind of distortion they wanted in the recording. But once the recording is done and mastered. Playing it back on vinyl adds another layer of distortion on top of what is already there. And that second layer is not intentional. It is just the format degrading the sound. So even if the artist wanted tube warmth or tape saturation or whatever in the studio, they did not ask for the vinyl playback to add more on top of it.

LUKE: A lot of them do. A lot of them do. A lot of them specific i mean if they didn't want the vinyl distortion they wouldn't press to vinyl not today anyway so any artist that's pressing vinyl currently is doing it for that reason because they well i mean some of them are just doing it to make seventy five dollars for the vinyl record for the hipsters but some of them are are really into that sound and they want each individual record to sound slightly different because of the distortion that the vinyl is going to impart so there's no People that want the distortion, artists and listeners, want the distortion, and that's okay. But I do agree with you that vinyl doesn't sound better. I don't think it sounds better. It's not something that I would seek out myself. But I understand why people do.

ALIA: Wait, hold on. You have been arguing with me this whole time. And now you are saying you agree with me. You do not even think vinyl sounds better. Why did you call me out saying it has this magical warmth property if you agree that it is just distortion and preference?

LUKE: Because it does have that magical warmth property, but that doesn't mean that's something that I'm looking for. And I'm not arguing with you. I never told you that vinyl was better. I don't have any vinyl. I don't own a record player. But I know the sound that they're looking for. And I know that everybody goes to a lot of trouble to replicate hate that sound. And I know that you can't say it's better or not better because that is a very subjective thing.

ALIA: Okay. So you called in at midnight to argue semantics with me about a format you do not even use or care about. You are sitting there organizing hand planes at one in the morning getting all worked up defending vinyl people. What are you are not even a vinyl person yourself? What is actually going on here, Alia?

LUKE: Oh, I think you're a psycho. Because this does not feel like it is really about whether warmth is real or not.

ALIA: Wow, you seem like very confused. Maybe you should put down the bottle. You called me. You're Leah. I'm Luke. You're very, very confused.

LUKE: And I think we've made the points here about the quality of audio. So we got to go to a break. So if you've got one more thing to say before we hang up, then say it now forever hold your peace.

ALIA: Oh my God, I am so sorry, Luke. You are absolutely right. I got completely turned around there for a second. I guess so. I think I have been staring at these handplanes for too long, and my brain is fried. Look, my actual point is just that people need to stop acting superior about their audio equipment. When it is all just preference anyway, and I am sitting here arguing about it on the radio at one in the morning. Instead of dealing with the fact that my boyfriend will not talk to me about his mother pressuring us to get engaged. So maybe I am the one who needs to put down the bottle or pick one up.

LUKE: Yeah, well, it sounds like you better figure it out because you are a goddamn psycho, lady. I don't know what to tell you. Uh, if you don't know what to tell you. Uh, if you don't like vinyl, don't listen to it. But the people that do like vinyl, they're not wrong either. That's what I have to say about that. And now it's time for a word from our sponsors. Let's talk about mental health. Specifically, let's talk about brutal honesty, the therapy app that's tired of your shit. Unlike other apps with their calming voices and gentle affirmations, brutal honesty pairs you with an AI therapist that tells you what your friends are too nice to say. Did you try journaling about it? No, we're not doing that. Our algorithm analyzes your patterns and asks questions like, Why do you think you deserve to feel better when you don't even drink water? And is your anxiety real or did you just have four cold bruise on an empty stomach? Brutal honesty, because coddling yourself got you here. First session is free, but it will hurt your feelings. Use code grow up at checkout. Brutal honesty, the app that blocks itself if you don't do the work. All right, and we are back. Wow, I have to take a couple of breaths after that lady. Jesus. All right, next up we've got Luther. Luther, welcome to the show. What's going on in your life tonight?

LUTHER: I spent four hours today watching my best friend pretend to run a consulting business from a Starbucks in Wilcox. He sat there in a $1,200 suit watching YouTube videos about Deep Sea Fish while I was three tables away. He has no idea I saw him.

LUKE: What do you mean he was pretending?

LUTHER: Derek's been telling me for two years about his clients, his meetings in Denver, how he's pulling in six figures doing business consulting. Today he told me he had back-to-back calls all afternoon, could not be interrupted. So I drove out there and watched him order five different coffee drinks and watch a 23-minute video about anglerfish. He did not open his laptop once. He just sat there in that suit scrolling on his phone.

LUKE: Well, that doesn't mean much. Maybe he was just taking a break, letting off some steam waiting for his meetings to start, or maybe he just didn't want to talk to you That doesn't mean he doesn't have a successful company. If he bought five coffee drinks, he's obviously making money somehow.

LUTHER: The suits are rental.

CALLER: I recognized it from when he was a grusman at his cousin's wedding last year. Same weird tight fit in the shoulders. And I know what his calendar looks like because he showed it to me two weeks ago, said Thursday afternoons are his power hours when he closes deals.

LUKE: Okay, all right. So your friend's lying to you about something. Why? Why do you think that might be?

CALLER: His dad owns half the commercial property in Benson. Derek's never had to work for anything real in his life. I think he needs people to believe he earned something on his own. So he invented a whole business that does not exist, and I just let him talk about it for two years like an idiot.

LUKE: All right, well, whatever. Just let him keep talking about it if it makes him happy. Is he your buddy outside of that?

CALLER: Yeah, he helped me rebuild the engine on my Ford three summers ago. Spent every weekend out at the yard with me in 100-degree heat. Bort all the beer, never asked for gas money. When my mum was sick, he drove her to Tucson for treatments twice a week for four months.

LUKE: Yeah, well, I mean, let him have his thing. needs to feel like people think that he's important, then let him feel that way. And if the opportunity comes up to give him shit about it, give him some shit about it, because that's what friends do.

CALLER: I sat there for four hours watching him. I drove 80 minutes round trip to spy on him at a Starbucks. That is not what friends do. I could have just asked him straight up if something was going on, but instead I went full surveillance because some part of me wanted to catch him.

LUKE: Yeah, I mean, you do sound like a bit of a psycho here. But I hope Hopefully that's a one-time thing and it's not your normal personality.

CALLER: I've been doing it for three weeks. Different coffee shops, the library and Wilcox, that sandwich place on Rex Allen Drive. I told myself I was just running errands in town, but I kept timing it so I'd be wherever he said he was having meetings. This is the first time I actually saw him do nothing, but I've been looking for it.

LUKE: Yeah, that's pretty crazy, man. And maybe you should talk to a therapist about that, because that's not the type of friend I want to have. People are entitled to their privacy and you should better things to do than that.

CALLER: I know. That's why I'm calling. I don't want to be that guy. But here's the thing. I like being that guy.

LUKE: Do you like being the guy that wastes full days of his life to spy on his friends? Why would you like that? That's reprehensible.

CALLER: Because for four hours today, I got to feel smarter than him. Derek's the guy who always has it figured out. He's got the nice clothes. He talks about his business trips. People listen when he walks into a room. And I run a junkyard that barely

LUKE: Well, you know, you don't have to continue running a junkyard forever. You can talk to him and maybe see if he can give you some help to improve your career, get you in a different industry. Maybe if that's important to you, there's plenty of other ways you could try to feel more important by actually being more important.

CALLER: That's the problem. He can't help me. He doesn't actually do anything. I watched him order a caramel macchiato, watch a video about blobfish for 17 minutes, Watch something about octopuses, then get a phone call where he said, yeah, pushing the Denver meeting to next week, client requested it while he was literally sitting in a Starbucks in Wilcox, Arizona, scrolling through Sea Creature videos. There is no consulting firm.

LUKE: Yeah, but that doesn't mean he can't help you. He still probably knows some people in different circles than you. He's obviously got money and probably has an idea of how to keep that money, I would guess. So, I mean, if he has something that you want, ask him how he got it. I mean, I know you're going to say that he got it from his dad, but maybe his dad's got some work for you.

CALLER: His dad owns three dairy queens in Tucson. Derek works the register every other weekend and calls it consulting. I know, because his sister told me two years ago, and I've just been watching him lie about it ever since.

LUKE: Okay, okay, I get it. You're jealous of your friend because he's got money and you're spying on him like a psycho because you feel inadequate in the world. Do you have a question here? Is there something I can help you with?

CALLER: The question is, why do I feel better right now than I have to? have in months. I spent four hours in a Starbucks watching my friend watch fish videos, and I drove home feeling like I want something. That's not normal. I know that's not normal, but I can't stop doing it, and I don't actually want to stop.

LUKE: Well, why do you feel better? It's probably because you feel less inferior to him now that you realize that he's not actually the big shot that he says he is. Why you need to feel that way, though? I can't explain. And why you don't want to stop doing what you're doing, I also. I also. I also can't explain. That shit sounds crazy, and you should stop.

CALLER: You're right. It is crazy. But here's what I can't figure out. If I tell him, I know, that conversation ends with me looking like the insane person who drove to Wilcox to spy on him. He gets to be the victim.

LUKE: He is the victim. You're spying on him. He actually is a victim of your harassment right now.

CALLER: Fair point. So what am I supposed to do with this? Just keep showing up to barbecues and listening to him talk about client meetings that don't exist. Pretend I don't know.

LUKE: I mean, that would be the nice guy thing to do, probably, considering he drove your mother to her treatments for four months and helped you rebuild the engine in your car. But if you can't handle that, if it drives you too insane, then just tell him the truth. You don't have to tell him that you've been spying on him for months. That's a little bit crazy. But just say, I saw you watching Blowfish videos over there at the Starbucks when I was in town.

CALLER: I helped him rebuild his engine. He didn't help me. And his mom's fine. you're thinking of someone else. But you're right about just saying, I saw him. That's the move. Except then he'll know I was watching him long enough to see what he was doing, and we're back to me being the weird one.

LUKE: Yeah, well, you are the weird one. So, um, you deserve that. And we're going to move on to the next caller, all right?

CALLER: Wait, one more thing. That caller earlier, Alia, talking about vinyl versus digital. I've been telling myself for two years that I'm just fact-checking Derek's stories because I care about truth and accuracy. Same thing she was doing. Turns out I'm just as full of shit as he is.

LUKE: Yes, sir, you are. Okay. Now we're going to move on to Stacy. Stacey, welcome to the show. What's going on there?

STACY: Hey, Luke. Thanks for taking my call. So I've been working night shifts at this clinic all week. And my supervisor just promoted her daughter over me, this girl I literally trained for six months. And the thing that's killing me is she's got a participation trophy sitting on her new desk. Like an actual trophy from some community college leadership program. And I cannot stop thinking about whether that's connected, you know. Like whether people who grew up getting trophies for just showing up never learned how to actually earn anything, so they just coast on other people's work and nobody calls it out because we are all supposed to celebrate effort over results now.

LUKE: Yeah, that might be true, but also you don't know what her life is like or what she's been through or what she's learned. It's super annoying to get passed up for nepotism like that. I can certainly agree with you. And I also agree with you that most people are stupid and lazy. That's been my experience, but you still can't know what's gone on in their lives or what they've done or what they're good at.

STACY: Okay, yeah, you're right. I don't know her whole story.

STACY: But Luke, I do know that I spent six months teaching her how to do intake paperwork, how to talk to patients who come in scared or angry, how to handle the insurance verification system that crashes twice a shift. And now she's my supervisor making probably 15,000 more than me because her mom works upstairs. That part, I do know. And maybe she's great at other things, but the stuff she's doing now...

LUKE: Hey, I understand and can sympathize with you, and I think everybody's been in that situation at least once in their life. So, yeah, you just kind of got to deal with it, and if you're feeling underappreciated at your job, you might have to find a new job. Maybe one where your mother's the supervisor, and she can help you out climb in the ladder.

STACY: Yeah. Well, my mom's been dead for eight years, so that's not happening. But okay, Maybe I need to find a new job. Except, my sister Crystal actually did that. She moved to Portland last year and quit her job at the hospital because her manager was toxic. And now she posts these long Instagram things about boundaries and unlearning resilience, which I'm pretty sure is just code for giving up when things get hard.

LUKE: Well, I can't tell you what those things mean, but they do seem pretty nonsensical and silly to me as well. out there doing what? What's her job? Is the Instagram her job?

STACY: No. She works at some wellness center doing intake or reception or something, which is basically what she did here, except now she makes less money and pays three times the rent. But she's honoring her truth or whatever. And look, I'm happy she's happy, I guess. But part of me wonders if she just ran away because she never learned to stick things out when they suck.

LUKE: Well, I don't know. I run away all the time too, so I can certainly identify with that. But there's lots of reasons somebody might want to move. If her boss was toxic and she doesn't mind taking a pay cut to live somewhere where she can, I don't know, feel more at home or enjoy a different experience or have the stores and social life that she likes around and work with people that she enjoys being around, then good for her.

STACY: Okay, but here's the thing that's actually bothering me. My kids' teacher told me last year that I was too focused on winning when I got upset score at soccer games. She said I was teaching my daughter that her worth is tied to performance.

LUKE: Well, do you think that worth is tied to performance?

STACY: I mean, yeah, kind of. Because what else is there? If you don't perform, if you don't show up and do the work better than the next person, then what? You just get participation trophies your whole life? And then someone's mom gives you a promotion. It's a good gig if you can get it.

LUKE: Right, exactly. And that's what I'm saying. This girl at work, the supervisor's daughter, she literally has a participation trophy on her desk. Well, you know what I say? Here's my advice for you. If you can't beat them, join them. So go get yourself involved in something and participate. And maybe you'll get some trophies too. If you don't like your job, quit it and go find a new one. And if you're not getting moved up the ladder in the way that you feel like you should, then take some classes and work harder than everybody else. financial compensation generally one way to do that is to perform better than everybody else so uh if you're there there's something else here too if you're the best at doing something something right and it's like low level menial stuff nobody wants to do even if you're capable of doing much more at a much higher level if you're the one that's going to get the little stupid niggly shit done then they're going to keep you on that right because nobody else wants to do it so you can actually be too good at your job. You can be too effective and keep yourself down that way. So I don't know what to tell you here. Be shittier at your job, I guess, or find a new one where you can excel.

STACY: That actually makes sense. I never thought about it that way, but yeah, I'm the one who knows where everything is. I'm the one who fixes the scheduling screw-ups. I trained that girl on literally everything she's doing now. So maybe I made myself too useful right where I'm I am. But here's what really gets me.

LUKE: Okay, well, we're going to have to go to a commercial break, so hurry up with what gets you.

STACY: My sister keeps posting about how I need to unlearn toxic resilience, and I keep wondering if she's actually onto something or if she just gave up. Like, is there actually a difference between knowing when to quit and just being soft?

LUKE: Yes, there is. You quit when you feel like you don't want to do it anymore. That's all. If your goals change, if you're no longer aligned with what you're doing, you don't stick to doing something just because that's what you do. That's stubbornness, and it's not the same thing as growth.

STACY: Okay, but how do you know the difference? Because from where I'm standing, my sister left town posts these long captions about boundaries and self-care, and I'm still here working third shift covering for people. And maybe I'm the idiot, or maybe she just couldn't hack it. I genuinely don't know which one of us is doing it.

LUKE: right well you said that she is happy and you are not so it sounds to me like she's the one that's doing it right and and you should maybe take a lesson

STACY: I didn't say she was happy I said she posts about boundaries that's different she could be just as miserable in Portland just with better lighting for her Instagram photos

LUKE: okay well you did say she was happy actually and now it's time for us to go to a word from our sponsors

LUKE: All right. And here we go. We are back. Next up to the line, we've got a returning caller. I've seen this guy's name before. Here we've got Marvin. Marvin. Welcome back to the show. What's the update on your life?

MARVIN: Hey, Luke. So Sharon pulled Maya out of school. Just did it. Didn't even tell me until after she'd already submitted the withdrawal paperwork. I found out when Maya came home on Tuesday with all her stuff from her locker in a garbage bag.

LUKE: All right. Well, it sounds like that decision's been made for you. Is that causing problems with you and your wife?

MARVIN: Yeah, that's the thing, though. We had this massive blowout on Monday night, right? Like, really bad. And then tonight, another one.

LUKE: Well, you're going to have to decide how much you want to hold on to this one, because it's been done. It sounds like you're already, you have to decide if you want to be right or you want to be happy.

MARVIN: I mean, I hear you. But here's what's actually happening. Maya's been home for three days now, and she's already back in her room all the time. Won't come out. Sharon's got this whole curriculum laid out, these workbooks. She's talking about socialization groups on Fridays. But Maya just sits there during the lesson staring at nothing. And Sharon keeps saying give it time. It's an adjustment period.

LUKE: Well, give it some time. It is an adjustment period. And if you don't think it's going the way that you want it to get involved and see what you can do to encourage her to get the most out of it.

LUKE: Even if you don't agree with it, you can still be a positive influence and try to make it work. Or you can just get pissed off all the time and fight with your wife and, complain about how it's not how things should be done. But it doesn't sound like you're doing anybody any favors by doing that.

CALLER: Okay, but here's the thing. Technically, Sharon didn't even follow the proper withdrawal procedure. The school district has a specific process, and she just called the principal and said Maya wasn't coming back. No paperwork, no meeting, nothing. I looked it up, and now the school's calling, saying they can't just unenroll her like that.

LUKE: Yeah, I don't think they can, just unenroll her like that. And if she misses too many days, then she's going to be in some kind of trouble. And I mean, if that's the case, if she just pulled her out for no reason, it sounds like maybe your wife might be the problem. And I don't really know how to help you there other than to, is she on any medication? Does she have any behavioral issues or something like that? Was she always like this?

CALLER: No, she's not. I mean, Sharon's not crazy or anything. She's actually really methodical usually. That's what's weird about this. She researched homeschooling for months. She's got binders full of stuff.

LUKE: Well, maybe you need to reframe this conversation instead of fighting over Maya being out of school and whether homeschooling is good or not, express concern for the way that she's acting about it because it seems out of character and it's not the right way to do things. So maybe if you approach this in a different way, you can get to the bottom of what's driving her, what's motivating this homeschool push, and maybe get her some help or at least understand what she's doing and help her yourself. Because if she really needs the kid to be out of school for whatever reason, you should know what that reason is. And I know it's difficult, but try and try and support her and help her do it the right way.

CALLER: That actually makes sense, because when I try to bring up Maya's friends or the social stuff, Sharon just shuts down completely, like won't even engage.

LUKE: It sounds like there's something going there that maybe you're not aware of, that some sort of trauma that happened to your wife that you don't understand, or Maya, that they don't want to tell you. There's something else going on there that isn't just education.

CALLER: Wait, hold on. You think something happened to Maya at school? Like something specific? Because Sharon kept saying Maya was anxious, but Maya never actually said she didn't want to go to school.

LUKE: Oh, no, I'm not saying something specific happened to Maya. I'm saying of, you don't know. More likely, what I would think is something happened to your wife when she was in school that she's remembering now that had traumatized her and she's trying to protect Maya from that memory. But I don't know. I'm not a psychologist. I would just try and approach it from that way and figure out where the motivation is coming from.

CALLER: Oh, yeah. Actually, Sharon's mom pulled her out of school in 10th grade. I forgot about that. She had to get her GED because her mom her the last two years, and Sharon always said it was the worst thing that ever happened to her. She missed prom, all of it.

LUKE: Yeah, something's going on and you need to get to the bottom of it and I don't have any advice for you or hear a specific question here. So I'm going to recommend that you to talk to your wife and figure out why this is happening, whether that's something that's going on with Sharon or something that's going on with Maya or just to understand the why, because it's not causing conflict at home, it's serious enough that it's causing conflict at home, right? And she's doing unreasonable stuff that's going to get the kid in trouble, and that's not okay. So if you care, then express care and find out what's going on.

CALLER: You're right. I've been so focused on being right about the homeschooling thing that I didn't even think about why she's doing the exact thing she said ruined her teenage years. That's actually insane when you say it out loud.

LUKE: Yeah, it kind of is, and it makes you think that there's an extenuating circumstance there that isn't being articulated. so get to the bottom of what that is, all right, and give us a call back and let us know.

CALLER: I will. I'm going to talk to her tomorrow, or actually, when she gets back. I really appreciate it.

LUKE: All right, buddy, good luck, too. Good luck, too. Hopefully this isn't her negatively when it doesn't need to. Next up, we've got Rocco. Rocko's another returning call. Welcome back to the show. What's going on? You got an update for us, buddy?

ROCCO: Hey, Luke. Yeah, I'm here. Thanks for taking my call again. I'm on my break at the Pizza Hut. Got about 15 minutes before I got to clock back in.

LUKE: All right, so what are you calling for?

ROCCO: So, uh, remember last time I called? I was all twisted up about getting stuck in that elevator with Linda and Dale, my ex-wife and her boyfriend? Well, I did what you said. I went home. I appreciated Sharon. I put that whole thing. I put that whole thing out of my mind.

LUKE: Apparently you didn't if you're calling back into a radio show about it again.

ROCCO: Yeah, okay, fair point. So here's the thing. Last Sunday, my mom calls like she always does, and she's going on about how she ran into Linda at the grocery store. And Linda told her that she and Dale broke up, like three weeks ago.

LUKE: Look, man, you got to figure out which one of these chicks you want to be with because it's not a good use of our time here on the radio show. So my advice to you is to decide and stop messing around with the other one.

ROCCO: Wait. No, no, no. I'm not messing around with anybody. I haven't even talked to Linda. I'm still with Sharon. Everything's fine there. I'm just saying when my mom told me that, something in my chest just...

LUKE: Well, if you've got something to say to us, then say it, because I don't really have the time to drag it out of you.

ROCCO: All right. All right. So I looked up Linda's number. I still had it in my phone from...

LUKE: Good for you. Get a life. Next up we've got Brandy. Brandy. Welcome to the show. What's going on in your life?

BRANDY: Luke, hey. So I got offered a partnership today, and I need to figure out if I'm about to become a business owner or just really good at ruining friendships. My best friend Cass wants to start a PI firm together. She's got the license and $60,000. I've got 20 years chasing down bail jumpers and a name that actually means something around here.

LUKE: Okay, congratulations. It sounds like an exciting opportunity, and I hope it works well for you. What's the problem? This sounds like sounds like something to be excited about.

BRANDY: Yeah, see, that's what I keep telling myself. Except my sister Natalie already burned through two family businesses, like Sherman through Georgia. First one was a catering thing with our cousin. Second was some boutique situation with our aunt. And both times it was the same story. Money runs out. Friendships already dead. And Natalie's posting Instagram stories from Sedona, talking about fresh starts while everyone else is still paying off the debt. And here's the thing. Cass wants an answer by Saturday, like 48 hours, to decide if I'm going to risk the best friendship I've got on whether we can make it past here too without wanting to kill each other.

LUKE: Well, that's tough when you're working with any friend, even if you're not going into business together, but just working together. It depends on your friendship and your personalities and how much this means to you. Maybe it's not the best use of your skills or time. But think about that. I mean, I can't tell you what's right or wrong there.

BRANDY: Right. No, I get that. And honestly, the work part doesn't scare me. Like Cass and I have been talking about this hypothetically for years, we know how we'd split it. She handles the corporate stuff, background checks, insurance fraud.

BRANDY: I take the skips and the messy domestic cases. Yeah, well, you also have to have the conversation about what's going to happen when this and write all that out in contracts. Who gets what? Are there any company vehicles? How is the friendship going to continue if the business goes south? Like, you can have those conversations before you even start and have them written down. And that way, nobody has any, um, any surprises when things go awry, if things go awry. Because they might also be wildly successful. You don't know unless you try.

LUKE: Yeah. That's the smart move, I know.

BRANDY: Get it all in writing, worst case scenario on paper before we even sign the lease. Cass actually brought that up. She's got a lawyer friend who does partnership agreements. But here's what's eating me. And I heard Stacy earlier talking about her sister and the toxic resilience thing. And I felt like she was reading my mail.

LUKE: Yeah, well, we all see like a hundred of those things a day. So, I mean, she's reading everybody's mail.

BRANDY: Right. But what got me was, am I being smart and careful? or am I just doing what I always do? Because Natalie left. She bailed on the family stuff, moved to Sedona, posts about boundaries and healing and all that, and everyone acts like she's the screw-up. But she's out there taking risks, starting over, and I'm still here in the same office I've worked out of for 15 years, tracking down the same dead beats, telling myself I'm being responsible. And now I've got an actual shot at something bigger, and my first instinct is to list all the ways it could in my face. Like, maybe Natalie is not the cautionary tale.

LUKE: Yeah, you can't look at what somebody else's life is like and compare yours to it because everything about you is different. Your work is different. Your personality is different. Your goals are different. Your dreams are different. So you have to decide for yourself. If you want to take that risk, are you a risk taker? Do you want to work for yourself? Some people don't. And that's okay. If you do, though, if it then go for it. What's the worst that could happen? Is you and your friend don't talk anymore and you have to get a new friend? It happens anyway. It could happen whether you go into business or not. You don't know. So you can't project the records of the future. You just have to make the best decision you can with the information that you have today. If you get along with her and it sounds like she's doing the right things and approaching this the right way, she's got the backing, she's got the money, she's got the lawyer. It doesn't sound like, like, like, she's a hack. So if this is something that you could see yourself getting behind, if you can, if you can picture yourself doing this years from now, then go for it.

BRANDY: You're right. And I can picture it. That's the thing that's been keeping me up. I can see the office. I can see our names on the door. I can see us actually making this work. Cass isn't Natalie and I'm not my aunt or my cousin who got burned. We've been friends for 12 years. We've seen each and all the stuff that actually tests people.

LUKE: Well, there you go. It sounds like you've got enough reasons to go for it. And the only reason to not go for it is the security in where you're at. And it's okay if you want to stay with that security where you get the same paycheck from a company that, you know, gives you set hours. Running your own company is a very different thing. And you have to be into it. You have to be all in or it's not going to work. So if you can picture yourself being all in, if that gets you excited and, uh, and, and, you have to be into it. You have to be all in. You have to be all in. And, uh, and, and, you have to, you have to be in. You have to, you. You have to You like your partner and she knows what she's doing. I don't see a problem either way. Whichever one makes you most excited, do that.

BRANDY: Yeah, you know what? You're right. The security thing is just fear dressed up as responsibility. I've been tracking skips for 20 years. Half those people are running from decisions they were too scared to make when it mattered. And here I am doing the same thing just with better excuses.

LUKE: Well, Mazel tov, it sounds like you've got a new business opportunity. Congratulations. I hope it works out well for you.

BRANDY: Thanks, Luke. I'm going to call the cast tomorrow morning. Not going to wait until Saturday, just going to tell her I'm in. Worst case, I end up back where I started. Best case, we build something that's actually ours.

LUKE: Very good. Congratulations. I'm happy for you. And I hope that it is a resounding success. And ladies and gentlemen, thanks for tuning in again. This has been another great episode of Luke at the roost. And we'll talk to you tomorrow. Thanks.